I've said that if they retained JVG and gave him all the same '07-08 talent of Scola, Landry, Mike James and Francis that he'da had the same exact record Adelman had, maybe even better. Total extrapolation: I think he'da used Mike James better, possibly Steve Francis. Though we'da never had Aaron Brooks who was an Adelman pick. Rockets won 52 games in '07, the same year they only had 4 guys score in a game, then 55 in '08. How could the Rockets have NOT improved 3 games with those additions to a STABLE in-place system? If we'da had those guys the year before, JVG might still be coaching the team. The Barry/Sura/Wesley/James bunch had the JVG offense rolling at the end of the season. I think Scola/Landry/James/Francis bunch woulda had a similar effect. As commendable as it was, it took a 22 game winning streak by the Adelman team to match the consistent win total you'da expected out a JVG team. Then they'da probably still made the Bonzi/Bobby Jackson trade. Mighta still flipped it for Artest. Ron Artest on a JVG team? I'll still go with Adelman by a hair cuz of the fact he advanced in the postseason.
different types of coaches, but both have been very successful. i would be fine with either to coach my team. i just wish JVG had more talent to work with.
exactly. morey seems to value the types of players JVG values: battier, chuck hayes... if JVG was the coach now, lowry would be the starter, which is what morey probably wants.
All these arguments that RA has more talent than JVG ever had are true. But, that's in part due to JVG's unwillingness to give much PT to rookies. RA has been much more willing to let young players play and make mistakes, thereby bringing their energy and athleticism, but also helping them develop assets. Actually, I think it's good to look at the GM and Coach as a team. Part of Morey's success at accumulating assets is linked to RA's ability to develop talent. Once he develops them, he can trade them a la Landry. JVG was keen to bring in some of the old Knicks players like Witherspoon and Jackson, but never gave the young players much time to develop.
Next poll should be: "better TV commentator" Rick or JVG", then JVG would win 90% of the poll, not for this one.
you wrote: I guess you're saying they're just "lesser than Yao and Tracy" rather than lesser players - but to the extent you are claiming they had injury problems, more so than in JVG, that's also wrong. On the year of the switchover, Battier played nearly the exact same total minutes under both, Rafer played fewer minutes than under JVG, around the same average, though you're correct he missed about 8 games under Adelman (74 instead of 82). Landry played 0 games under JVG and a lot more under Adelman since he was in college until then. So that dog certainly doesn't hunt.
RA has a chance to develop them b/c of injuries to tracy AND yao. adelman was forced to play landry and cbud more. i mean if yao was completely healthy, landry wouldn't get that much time. if tmac was completely healthy last year (and was professional), cbud might not have seen any time. so it's not just willingness to give the young guys some burn. when tmac was injured in 05-06, luther head got a ton of burn
The question asked by the thread is kind of meaningless, and it's for one reason: I am not sure there is a well-defined "Adelman System" or "JVG System." Coaches adjust the way they play the game to their personnel. So "Adelman System" with Clyde and Porter is a lot different than "Adelman System" with Webber and Vlade, which is a lot different than "Adelman System" with Bonzi and Artest, which is a lot different than "Adelman System" with Yao and McGrady, with Yao and Artest, with last year's team, etc. There are certain principals that a coach keeps, but Adelman's 07/08 "system" for example, looks a lot more like JVG's 06/07 "system" than it does the Kings 01/02 "system." Why? Because the 07/08 Rockets roster looks a lot more like the 06/07 Rockets roster than the 01/02 Kings personnel so chances are the best way to win with that roster would be similar to the way the 06/07 Rockets, coached by a very competent JVG, played. Even the 08/09 Rockets, with McGrady sidelined and Ron Artest in and other changes like Wafer and Lowry, looks a lot more like 06/07 Rockets.
You are forgetting the triumph of the 09-10 Adelman system, which led to 42 glorious wins, the 14th best offense in the league, 8 games short of the playoffs, and a deserved free trip to Secaucus in May for talismanic Aaron Brooks.
Rick develops young talent better and his offense is a lot more fun to watch. Brooks would still be in the D-league if JVG was coaching. JVG's defense was better but I think our guys this year will get back to thier defensive ways and we will see how much better Rick really is.
Exactly. I mean, look at how all those players JVG was sticking on the end of the Rockets bench are tearing up the league now that he is not there to keep them down. Spanoulis, Nachbar, Novak, Lucas III, Ford, Braggs, Wilks, Barret, Knight, Bogans, Davis, Frahm, Graham, and Lampe; you could just get all of those guys together on a team and you would be a lock for the #1 seed. I think four of them are still playing in the NBA.
i'm going to go out and throw Phil Jackson's name out there. overrated? who knows, but i remember when he had a team of Shaq, Kobe and huhmuna, huhmuna, huhmuna... Samaki Walker? some guy called Medvendenko. some other white dude that was a terrible dancer. Rick Fox? Ron Harper on his last legs, barely played the second championship season and retired afterword. Fisher, who gradually turned into the clutch player he is known as now, but still worse than any incarnation of Brooks although better than any incarnation of Rafer only because of the clutch shooting. there was this guy called Horry, but he never started at any rate their role players weren't that much better than Houston's worst role players, but Phil just had a way of making players look so much better than they were. i remember even Mark Cuban made fun of the Lakers calling then Shaq, Kobe and the merry men of minimum. they still got their arses kicked by the Lakers. no way that Phil Jackson can't get out of the first round with a relatively healthy Yao and T-Mac, and no freaking way does he have only FOUR players score in a playoff game. ugliest offense i have ever seen. good riddance to that.
Yep, "lesser than Yao and Tracy" is a long way from "albatross" which you put in my mouth. I did not claim that. I only claimed that Yao and McGrady were healthier with JVG than with Adelman. Was it not a fact? The whole point of bringing up those guys was that their injuries, on top of Yao's and McGrady's, added to the instability of the lineup. Are you denying that it was not an important factor for the "average" performance of our offense during the first 2 seasons under Adelman? To reiterate my point, last season's was the only stable lineup Adelman had and that lineup only had three offensively talented players pre-trade, and two of them shared the same position. Budinger was the 4th offensive threat and he was a rookie with the typical rookie inconsistency. None of these guys would command special defensive attention like Yao and Tracy did. I guess I forgot David Andersen. He was supposed to be a good offensive player. But he was also a rookie and inconsistent as hell. I don't know how you can say that Adelman has had better offensive talents than JVG when he was having Chuck Hayes as his starting center and Battier and Ariza on the wing.
It's not really a fact no - but anyway that's not what you claimed. Here's your whole sentence: "Injury problem....with Battier, Landry, and Alston" - how else can you interpret this sentence? Other than that you are claiming they had injury problems - which they didn't.
Adelman would be happy to have Yao plays 0 games in regular season but being healthy in the playoffs.
04/05: McGrady 78 games, Yao 80 games. 05/06: McGrady 47 games, Yao 57 games. 06/07: McGrady 71 games, Yao 48 games. 07/08: McGrady 66 games, Yao 55 games. 08/09: McGrady 35 games, Yao 77 games. Frankly, other than 04/05, JVG's McGrady/Yao were not really any healthier in terms fo games missed than Adelmans. If you want to compare the two closest years, 06/07 and 07/08, McGrady+Yao actually played 2 more games for Adelman in his first year than they did for JVG in his last year. You can argue that McGrady wasn't as effective in the games he did play under Adelman, but isn't a part of that "Adelman's system" moving him off the ball more and reducing his touches? Also, if people are going to blame JVG for his handling of guys like Spanoulis and Bonzi (and many did back then), isn't clashing with Adelman a part of TMac's performance/health issue? After all, Morey/Adelman seem to be under the impression that McGrady could have played better in 08/09 if he was motivated to rehab properly and could have not had the surgery if he chose to tough it out. You might say Van Gundy was easy on McGrady, but his approach seems to have worked better than Adelmans if you are judging it by McGrady's on-court performance.
