Stop using offense to justify that Maxwell is a better defender...Von Wafer is not a better defender than Shane. Hedo is not a better defender than Ron Artest.
Yeah.. I've seen a lot of offensive suggestions as to why he's the better defensive player. We love Max here at clutchfans, but we should also be able to be objective. Objectively, it's not close on defense. On offense, it's not close either, but we're not talking about offense.
battier is the overall better defender, individual or team. like someone said, eliminating the hand-checking makes it virtually impossible to stop most of the elite perimeter players today. and battier has shown to do a great job slowing down the top guys with those rules. i can't say how maxwell would have done defensively with the new rules, but battier has proven to be a top 2 perimeter defender for at least the past 3-4 years. however, maxwell is a more intimidating and quicker defensive player. i think he would have the reputation similar to what artest has today and players will definitely respect maxwell. offensively, it's no contest. maxwell has battier beat. maxwell may shoot you out of games at times, but at least he has the skills to shoot you through games and possibly win you games. battier always plays it safe, which can be good. but like someone also said, sometimes battier looks like a scrub on offense when he does that and he does hurt the team. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iupd8SOQWUQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iupd8SOQWUQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> maxwell is one of those few players where you say, "that fool done gone crazy" one moment, then you're like, "damn go max, go kill that fool/opponent."
Just Defense? Battier, easy. Vernon was a better all around player. Guarding MJ is like guarding Kobe, judging it is really hard to do. Players like those two have nights where they are unconscious and just knock down shots regardless of defense, and yet some nights they are flat. Look at how Kobe did some major damage against us, and it seemed like we were doing a really poor job against him. Then in the Denver series he lit them up in a way he couldn't do against us. Max might have locked down Jordan in some contests, but without a direct playoff match-up, and a lot more hard data, it's not easy to say he really "locked" him down.
battier easily? i don't think it's as easy as you think. we're not talking 1 season, maxwell on the rockets has always given jordan headaches for many seasons even though it wasn't in a 7 game series. you have to remember that mad max also talked a lot of mess and still was able to back it up against jordan and miller.
Jordan: "I can't say. Shane Battier has never guarded me in my prime before." Kobe Bryant would say Battier is the better defender.
kobe got his average and his percentage, jordan on the other hand consistently was held under his avg against maxwell this thread just proves how overrated battier is. and its not even about what he did against kobe because I acknowledge that he made kobe work. but battier is not a good defender against players bigger than him, so that argument that he can guard bigger player is nill and moot.
he has drastically slowed down lebron in previous years. and he has shown to slow down dwayne wade too (and wade is shorter and much quicker than battier is). and he almost always slows down melo. battier is a great defender. he's overrated at times b/c his offense can be absolutely scrubbish at times.
Aren't you just talking about one-on-one defense? To me, that's merely a fraction of what Battier does on the defensive end. And you ignored the point made by many others -- individual perimeter defenders were at an advantage back then because they could hand check.
Yeah, but Maxwell guards the same defenders. Let me clarify, if your argument is that Battier can guard a bigger variety of players I disagree. Battier's height gives him one advantage over Maxwell as a defender, he's a good weakside shot blocker. other than that, they are limited to guarding players on the perimeter.
Kobe eats smaller guards for breakfast. I'd like to see how Maxwell would keep him in front and contest his shots without the benefit of hand-checking, but we'll never know.
Well just for the sake of argument, Kobe's game is extrmely similiar to Micheals (Kobe has more range but mike was more explosive off the dribble) they're both similiar is size so one could argue Vernon would do well agaisnt Kobe.
i have a question, said if the person you guarding on the other end is guarding you, if you make him work on the defense end, doesn't that help you by making him work on both end, so he will be tired out more faster?
Shane is definitely smarter, however, Maxwell is tougher/stronger than Shane, especially on post defense. I go with mental over toughness... Shane in a slight edge due to bball IQ and height. Overall no contest with MadMax getting the nod.
Just because handchecking was allowed in that era, does not mean that every perimeter defender utilized it in their technique. For every Derek Harper that groped his opponents like a drunk guy at a club, there was a Maxwell or Joe D who utilized their speed , tenacity and understanding of angles to get the job done. Maxwell was a far better one on one defender than Shane is today. He was better laterally, had better hands, and was ablr to force his man to play defense against him, as well. Shane's defense is very good. In fact, I'm amazed how well he can play it, considering his man can exert all of his energy on offense (since shane roasts marshmallows in the corner on offense). But he can be blown by one on one. You rarely saw Madmax get blown by , and not for handchecking rules. Madmax was a perimeter Dennis Rodman. Period. Tough, under your skin, but perfectly legal (in any generation) defense.
Didn't you know?.....EVERYONE who plays now are waaaaaay better than players from those past era's ....at least that's what youtube, ESPN, all of the PER's, TLC's, OPP's and BBD's have these kids thinking
handcheckin or not, maxwell would hold his own. jordan was the best and jordan hated maxwell defending him. maxwell would still talk crap to kobe and still do what he's always done and play aggressive defense.
Thank You I'm sick of people on here trying to use the handchecking rule to justify why they think Maxwell is not the better defender. If you tell Maxwell to not hand check is he not athletic enough to still do what Battier does even better? Maxwell had to hold Jordan and Battier has to hold Kobe both did a heck of a job but with or without the handcheck rule Maxwell held a better player in check and also made that better player defend him seriously and respectively on the other end of the floor end. Battier is just a more fundamentally sound defensive player but Maxwell is the better overall defender.
I think that while Max played Jordan probably better than anyone in his prime, having Olajuwon as a backup in the paint made it a hell of a lot easier to defend so aggressively on the perimeter. Max probably got in Jordan's head better than anyone though. Probably because Jordan knew how crazy Max was.
