he knows great players take over games in key situations and that's what he has been doing. fast don't lie
I agree he is more athletic than Wall and I don't think it's debatable. I don't know about faster than Wall though. They both are pretty damn fast.
As for Rondo Folks can we please get rid of the notion that he is putting up crazy numbers because he plays with 3 Hall of Famers. Remember when he was getting triple doubles in the playoffs 2 years ago? That was when KG was out. So now he's left with Pierce and Allen. Pierce and Allen were so inconsistent in the playoffs that year. Hell even last year Pierce and Allen were inconsistent. You can argue that Rondo has been the best player on Boston for the last 2 years when it mattered.
Rondo is Jason Kidd, very underrated for what he does, but I would still take Rose and Williams and Paul. But rondo controls the game in his own way.
I guess you've missed both Thunder vs. Hornets games this season (including last night) where Westbrook kicked CP3 in the behind. Until his injury, I had CP3 as the best PG in the NBA. Whether it's due to not being fully recovered or not, he's #4 at best right now. 1 D-Will 2 Rose 3 Westbrook
Good for you, it seems that most here don't. Having said that, Wall is going to be a hell of a player and he seems to have great basketball instincts as well. It's unreal how these huge point guards like Rose are getting so fast. I hope that we can somehow get Kyle Irving.
His defense looks great. I hate seeing him against Lowry and Brooks because he totally man-handles them and gives them fits on both sides of the ball. Since I don't think that there are any point guards with his combination of speed, skill and strength I can't say how good his defense would be in that situation.
Here is why Hollinger thinks Rose is not an elite PG yet... Spoiler http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insid...PERDiem-101210 Derrick Rose is a surefire All-Star, but he's not yet an elite point guard. Here's why. Derrick Rose doesn't draw fouls. That's about all the negativity I can muster toward him in an impressive first quarter of the season, yet it remains an important distinction in evaluating his place among the league's elite. Let me explain. For starters, there is no question that Rose is aboard the fast track to superstardom. The third-year guard played well enough to make the All-Star team a year ago, and this season he's a no-brainer pick. He ranks fourth in the league in scoring and ninth in assists. At times he's been electric and unstoppable, such as his 14-point outburst during an 18-0 run in Houston that broke open a close game in the fourth quarter. Moreover, his success has proven fruitful for his employers. The Bulls are eighth in the Power Rankings, despite a brutal early schedule and free-agent pickup Carlos Boozer playing in five of their first 20 games. The Playoff Odds see them winning 49 contests and the Central Division crown. Unquestionably, their catalyst has been Rose. While he's shooting a lot, it's not just a question of taking more shots. He's also added some tools to his repertoire. Most notably, he's stroking the 3-pointer more confidently and, so far, more accurately. Rose attempted 132 triples in his first two pro seasons and didn't shoot it much more often for Team USA this summer, but in the current season he's trying over four 3-pointers a game and converting at a respectable 37.1 percent clip. It's the perfect response to opponents' preferred strategy of defending him by going under screens and conceding the jumper. They concede that J, of course, because Rose is such a great finisher around the basket. He's shooting 58.6 percent in the basket area this year, according to Hoopdata.com, and has been in that range his entire career. Moreover, he gets there often -- nearly six times a game for his career. All of those skills should make him a lethal force and a legit MVP candidate. And they would ... if he would draw some fouls. Rose, however, isn't in the elite category if we look at PER, Estimated Wins Added or any other analytic metric. He's sixth among point guards in estimated wins added (EWA), right behind Raymond Felton and a loooong way behind leaders Russell Westbrook, Chris Paul and Deron Williams. In PER, it's a similar story -- sixth among point guards, 19th overall. Long-time Bulls fans will no doubt be shocked to see him listed behind Shannon Brown and Tyrus Thomas. And while that state of affairs is likely temporary, the reason behind it is more permanent. The reason, as you might have surmised already, is that Rose doesn't draw fouls. Rose's shooting percentages -- 45.6 percent overall, 37.1 percent on 3s -- are solid for a point guard. But his True Shooting Percentage -- 53.3 -- is rather ordinary. Of the league's 62 qualifying point guards, 32 outrank him in that category, including all the ones he's compared to in the "best point guard" debates (see chart). Compare head-to-head against the league's elite point guards and the difference jumps out. Despite all his forays to the rim, Rose averages 5.6 free throw attempts per game on just over 21 field goal attempts; his rate of .26 free throw attempts per field goal attempt is well below the league average of .32. As with the TS% above, 32 of the league's point guards outrank him in free throw attempts per field goal attempt. That list includes his backup (C.J. Watson, 0.28); jump-shooting specialists such as Cleveland's Daniel GibsonMike Conley; and a whole host of players who aren't nearly as good. Against the elite, he's completely outclassed in this category. Westbrook gets to the line nearly nine times a game, or once for every two field goal attempts; this difference accounts for nearly the entirety of Westbrook's advantages over Rose and places him comfortably ahead in TS% and PER. Paul takes nearly as many free throws on half as many shot attempts. Williams also shoots dramatically less than Rose but gets to the stripe nearly seven times a game. Even Tony Parker -- a slasher, whose M.O. is to sidestep the hit and make the shot instead -- gets to the line at a higher rate than Rose. The only elite point guard who gets to the line less frequently than Rose is Rajon Rondo, and that's because he's actively terrified of having to shoot free throws. The punch line? Rondo still has a better TS% than Rose. Unlike Rondo, Rose has no reason to fear the stripe because he converts at a respectable 77 percent clip. He just doesn't earn himself a lot of trips. I've heard a variety of explanations for Rose's relative lack of freebies. The "no respect from the refs" theory is the one most often heard in the upper reaches of Illinois, but it's also the most suspect. Several less-experienced players have had little trouble getting to the foul line at a more frequent clip. Rookie John Wall, for instance, is the one whose physical skills are most often compared to Rose's, and he's had no trouble getting to the line with far greater frequency. Moreover, it's not like Rose is some unknown rookie. In his third season as Chicago's featured offensive performer, I'd say the officials are deeply familiar with his playing style. No, the unfortunate fact is this: The same things that make Rose so watchable also conspire against him. He's so smooth, so graceful and so explosive that it's fairly easy for him to float past opponents and drop in a layup or to launch his unusually-effective 10-foot floater or to pull up for the J while an opponent watches helplessly from the other side of the screen. Alas, none of those maneuvers get him to the line, and the next time Rose willfully draws contact to force his way there will be a first. Contrast that, for instance, with Westbrook's bull-in-a-china-shop approach, and there's no question which one is easier on the eyes. Rose's tactic is less effective on the scoreboard because Westbrook is taking twice as many foul shots every night. Don't get me wrong, Rose is a spectacular performer and a surefire All-Star. If you're making a list of players you'd pay money to see play, there's no question he's in the top 10. All those graceful plays I just mentioned are far more entertaining than watching somebody shoot two flat-footed 15-footers from the line while the other nine players stand and watch. Still, it's a less effective way to win basketball games. It seems mundane, as though we're nitpicking, to bemoan Rose's lack of free throws, but it's a notable shortcoming when comparing Rose to the other elite players at his position. Until he earns more whistles, Rose won't ascend to the top of the league's point guard mountain. (caution its long)
I don't understand how taking less free throws than, Russel Westbrook for example, but scoring more points, makes him a worse player. It just means he gets his points from the field instead of at the stripe, to the point where he scores more points.
Lol @ Derrick Rose not being an elite PG because he doesn't draw fouls. He is definitely an elite PG.
Rose needs to get to the lines more -- that's the one thing that still separates him from Wade. On the other hand, refs need to start calling fouls in Rose's favor. It seems that Rose still gets the rookie treatment from the refs even though he's now a superstar.
If i had to pick a pg right now, i would take westbrook because of his nastiness. Anytime you can make people forget about durant when he was out, you're damn good.
U know, cp3 has problems with those big physical pg's. Evereytime he plays williams, its a no contest and williams abuses him. Also, cp3 can't play off the ball. He needs play finishers as he dominates the ball like nash in phoenix. The nash in dallas had play creators and he wasn't as effective.
This is a golden era of great PGs. There are at least 6 or 7 guys who can be considered elite PGs. That's almost 25% of all starting PGs. Amazing.
I'm not saying he's a worse player, but what it means is that he's using up more of his team's possessions to get those points. Rose's efficiency from the field is 0.495, and from the stripe its 0.764. If you want to maximize the amount of points you score on the your possessions as a team, then getting to the freethrow line really helps. There are secondary effects as well that help win games, like getting your team into the penalty faster and putting fouls on the opposing team's players.
I think it's more of a skill of drawing fouls from your defender type of thing which is the reason for his lack of calls. Iverson in his prime was quicker than everybody, but he drew a ton of fouls because he knew how to strategically bump into his defender to get the call.
I'll give CP3 this much...he has to deal with D-Will. D-Will doesn't have to defend CP3 as much. Williams is the best right now. Only thing I don't like is dude can't defend for ****.
