The case for Giannis isn't just "best player on best team". That's a heuristic for picking out a viable MVP candidate. Not definitively deciding the MVP. I would bet most media voters consider Giannis to be the superior player. Couple that with his team having a much better record (best record), a huge leap forward in regular season team success (and a large leap backward in regular season team success for Harden), and him not having won an MVP before and Harden already winning one last year, and that's going to sway a lot of voters to go with him. Harden has a reasonable chance now that his team will probably win at least a few games over 50, and given all his "signature games" and all those notable scoring feats that the media covered. The chances of him winning can swing by a lot depending on the outcome of tonight's game.
No, that would be petty and ridicule-worthy. Fortunately, he has the good sense not to do something like that.
The bold shouldn't matter... especially to guy who's only won ONCE and already finished 2nd, TWICE. If you mention record without mentioning conference, you're being dishonest. Also, mentioning Houston's regression from last season without mentioning injuries is beyond dubious. If people/media were just honest with themselves, Harden would win by a landslide.
This argument in favor of Giannis breaks down pretty quickly, because who honestly that the Bucks are better than the Warriors?
Good lord, it's just a regular season award. A prestigious one for sure but still that. I am relieved I dun really care about how the whole voting process comes about.
I agree. The conference you play in matters. College Football understands this. They account for it in their playoff system because beating up a bunch of scrubs is not equivalent to a similar record against tougher opponents. The best record is only valid if you get rid of conferences and all teams play the same opponents the same number of times. Which I would be fine with. If you brought the Bucks to the West, I doubt they would be the runaway #1 seed. I bet they would be battling for somewhere between 1 and 4 like the Rockets.
If this teaches us anything it's that there is NO standard for winning MVP. Almost all of it is narrative driven. You could say best player on best team wins it more often, but there are plenty of instances on there where it's painfully obvious statistically that the guy who won didn't deserve it. I'm talking Derrick Rose 2010-2011, Kobe in 2007-2008, AI 2000-2001, both Nash years, and most definitely Westbrook 2yrs ago. Even Kobe and Jordan in their highest scoring seasons didn't win. They really need to define things better. More than "best player best team", or "best statistical player", it needs to be about "who contributed most to winning". Now that we have advanced stats we can marry these two ideas, 1.) absolute stats; and 2.) team wins and how much those stats led to wins. Soft criteria need to be things like: >14 win shares total in a season; and a win share per 48 in the mid-.200's. This year, both Harden and Giannis are passing with flying colors on both fronts. I really do feel it's the closest Harden has come to deserving to lose, and I was one of the guys crying bloody murder the years Curry and Westbrook beat him. Because Harden had higher win shares and WS/48 both times. It was just sad how quickly the narrative turned to ignore what he did. Year in and year out, no matter the supporting cast Harden is carrying a team to 50+ wins. Not T-Mac, not Yao; not even Hakeem did this consistently in the regular season.
We're talking about why Giannis voters will vote for him. The Bucks have been the best regular season team, by record. That weighs heavily in MVP voting. Adjustments for conference strength (mostly guesswork and hypothetical), much less so.
Lebron wins this running away with same stats and wins on the Lakers as Harden. Media would play the narrative card instead -- "We are witnessing Lebron's best season, and possibly best ever -- give him the MVP." Same with Curry. Harden just never has a media-darling narrative. Seriously, we wouldn't even be discussing Giannis. It's like a unanimous win for Lebron, with future stories about "Remember that Lakers year before Durant and Kawhi joined, when Lebron dragged that team to 3rd seed on 36ppg. That was incredible." Or with Curry, "I'll never forget that year the Warriors kept having injuries all year, and Curry wouldn't let them go away, putting them on his back." And really, it's more than that. Harden has not just increased his shots from last year's 65 win MVP, he has noticeably improved his game. He has noticeably been able to beat the defense that used to stop him....because with the injuries, defenses can focus on him.
Not to mention... EVERYONE would be saying, "Milwaukee is Eastern Conference so can't compare records". Everyone would suddenly be honest again.
They would vote for Giannis because they have an agenda. "Best record" means less when it's East. No need for anyone to ignore obvious facts unless there's an agenda.
Doesn't matter, though. MVP is a regular season award, so you have to go by the limits and boundaries of the regular season. Bucks may not be a better team than the Warriors, but they still own the best record in the league.
What kind of best player on the best team cant stay on the court in the clutch? the other night they needed a quick 3 but when the Brick Freak realized he cant shoot, he went to the rim for a 2 and thus ruined bucks chances to get back into the game.
There are only 5 decent to good teams in the East, and all 8 playoff teams in the West are pretty decent to good. Let's see how the Bucks and Rockets stack up to or played against these 13 teams (not even accounting for Injuries, etc.) Bucks against East best teams (4): Raptors W 3 L 1 76ers W 1 L 1 Pacers W 3 L 1 Celtics W 2 L 1 Totals against best in the East equals 9 Wins and 4 Losses with only 1 more game against any of these teams for a total of 14 games Bucks against the West Best Teams (8): Rockets W 1 L 0 Warriors W 1 L 1 Nuggets W 2 L 0 Blazers W 1 L 1 Clippers W 0 L 1 Spurs W 1 L 1 Thunder W 0 L 1 Jazz W 1 L 1 Totals against the best in the West equals 7 Wins and 6 Losses with 3 more games against any of these teams for a total of 16 games. Rockets against the East best teams (5): Bucks W 0 L 1 Raptors W 2 L 0 76ers W 1 L 1 Pacers W 2 L 0 Celtics W 2 L 0 Totals against the best in the East equals 7 Wins and 2 Losses with only 1 more game against any of these teams for a total of 10 games. Rockets against the West best teams (7): Warriors W 3 L 1 Nuggets W 2 L 1 Blazers W1 L 2 Clippers W 0 L 2 Spurs W 3 L 1 Jazz W 2 L 2 Thunder W 1 L 2 Totals against the best in the West equals 12 Wins and 11 Losses with 3 games left against any of these teams for a total of 26 games. To date, The Rockets have played 32 games against top tier opponents and but Bucks have played 26 games against top tier opponents. So by this the Rockets will have had 36 games against top tier opponents and the Bucks will have had only 30 games against top tier opponents. Futhermore, The Rockets have played 23 games against the West top opponents and the Bucks have only played 13 games against the West top opponents. The Rockets have also done better against the top East teams than have the Bucks. Anyone that doesn't think that the Bucks cupcake schedule, one of the easiest of ALL TIME IN NBA HISTORY, is not a major factor in them having the best record currently in the NBA, is just not being honest. Also, while the Bucks have had almost perfect health until this last week, losing only 20 games due to injury or otherwise (Giannis 7, Bledsoe 2, Brogdon 10, Middleton 3), the Rockets have lost 57 total games to injury to their top 4 players ( Harden 4, Ego 14, Clint 15 and CP# 24). Not to mention that Kawhi has only played for the Raptors in 54 games, thus missing 20 games! They would almost for sure have a better record than the Bucks if Kawhi has only missed 4 or 7 games like Harden or Giannis. So this whole the Bucks have the best record in the NBA so that should be considered in why Giannis should be MVP along with his stats, is not credible. Anyone saying that is part of their reason should be asked if the bucks sit and rest players out to end the season and Toronto or a team in the west ends up with a better record, would they still choose Giannis as the MVP. The honest and obvious answer should be NO, then it would be HarGod as it should be regardless. TLDR: Harden should be the MVP regardless of if the Bucks finish the season with the best record in the league mainly because of the cupcake schedule they have, and the significant amount of way more injuries to other teams that would have keep the Bucks from the best record. (among 10,000 other reasons of why Harden has been better this year!))
Shaq said 3 of last 20 years MVPs are not the best player in the best team. Best team means best record in the standing.
Around the horn was disgusting. ESPN can go **** themselves. They talk about Harden likes he’s trash. You don’t think he should be MVP, fine, but respect the game. I don’t talk **** about Giannis, I just think Harden is better.
