There's no conspiracy. Look, the Olympic committee is affected by politics. It is well known that Jordan didn't want Isiah Thomas on the first Dream Team, because they didn't like each other. Do you think Stu likes Steve after what he did to his franchise. He set the Grizzlies back a number of years and left them with a slightly above average PG, Bibby. He's head of the Committe, you are going to tell me he doesn't have influence.
It's silly to think otherwise: Sacramento would trade Bibby for Francis, BARRING any doubts over chemistry when we're approaching the playoffs. About the olympic commitee. It's not a conspiracy. Steve Francis is a big reason why Stu Jackson was unsuccesful in Vancouver, and Stu Jackson won't let Francis into the team. Besides, even if it didn't matter. Are you saying you'd rather have Ray Allen over Allen Iverson? Allen's on the team every year, Iverson isn't.
Which one game are you talking about?? Just looking at the Conference Finals (Games 1-7 respectively) MIN FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS 45 7-21 0-1 5-5 0 2 2 5 2 3 3 0 19 44 6-15 2-3 6-8 2 1 3 8 1 1 2 0 20 46 8-14 2-5 6-9 1 3 4 5 1 1 4 0 24 46 9-16 1-2 2-4 0 3 3 4 2 3 3 1 21 43 9-17 1-4 4-6 0 4 4 2 2 3 1 0 23 41 7-20 2-6 7-8 1 3 4 3 1 2 2 0 23 48 11-25 1-5 6-8 3 2 5 4 5 1 2 0 29 Not Michael-esque but not exactly bad for an average PG against the champs.
Do you know How many minutes Nash plays compare to Francis? How about Stats for 48 minutes? >> PPG RPG APG Steve Francis 22.7 5.8 6.0 Jason Kidd 19.5 5.9 8.3 Gary Payton 20.8 4.8 8.8 Steve Nash 17.7 2.8 6.9 Stephon Marbury 23.0 3.1 8.2 TONY PARKER 15.4 2.8 5.5 This hurts to see people, mostly rocket fans, puttin nash over francis; the stats don't add up, (these bein the 3 stats that really only matter). i can see how people put kidd and payton above stevie, but how u get nash above francis? and bibby too? sure he averages one more assist, but francis doesnt have a Dirk Nowitzki or a Michael Finley to score off a pass, so i find that unacceptable. and also, i dont know how someone put tony parker is better than Stephon Marbury. marbury is puttin up great numbers so it should be Kidd Francis/Payton (thats real close) marbury nash bibby parker oh yeah, bibby can't even be considered among top PGs with kidd, francis, and payton.PPG RPG APG
Good point...it definitely deals with the type of game internationally. In terms of PGs, Bibby is more likely to get the ball to your scorers (which he'll have a ton of in the Olympics) than Steve. I'd like to accept that argument more than the political factor. Of course, there are some who think that Ray Ray is better on a team than AI. But I'm tired of arguing because I actually like Steve Francis. I guess I just prefer more traditional point guards which would sway my vote towards Bibby. And like I've said before, IMO, the guy's as clutch as they come.
Okay, i do agree with ONE thing u said. It IS pointless to argue who's better between nash and francis, because francis has the edge, hands down. its ok if ur a mavericks fan, u don't have to roll your eyes at me, i understand if u wanna brag about how nash shoots about .2% better in field goals and .1% better in 3 pointers, and how he's a better free throw shooter. WOW and u should think about how ignorant ur saying that francis has a shoot first mentality. Thats a no brainer, because he IS the best shooter on the team, unlike nash. i'd rather have a better scorer, shooter, rebounder, jumper, dunker, passer, and creater (in francis). nash can go on ahead and go get a haircut with his mediocre self.
Which one you choose to start a team with: Francis vs Bibby: edge Francis. Francis vs Yao: edge Yao With Yao, you need a PG compatible with him. You take Bibby over Francis right now. But Steve can improve his playmaking skills. And if he does improve, he will be preferred to Bibby. Seriously, I wish Francis could have the passing ability of Marbury. I would take Marbury over Francis if not for his attitude.
Damn YYY, you start a thread asking people their opinion on PG's and then you call them ignorant for having a different opinion than yourself.
i'm not going to get into the nash v. francis argument, other than to say that we all need to maintain some sense of civility on this board; people of all ages read the contents of this board, and we should not lend the perception that name-calling and injurious remarks directed at others are acceptable in a public forum... We're all basketball fans who visit the board to engage each other in discussion and debate; I doubt that any of us here came to be labeled as "ignorant" or an "idiot"... I hope we can all rise above that level... -vz
Common ZRB, do you honestly think Francis is better than Kidd? I do agree, however, that Francis' team would be toe-to-toe with the Nets, if the Rockets were in the East. But then again, Kidd has produced in the West too. I just don't know if Francis is at Kidd's level yet.
Francis is a better overall player than Kidd, while Kidd is the better pure point guard. Gary is the best of the three of them by far. But I might be a little biased, since I have a vicious hatred for Jason Kidd.
You gotta be kidding me, ZRB. What do u mean by "overall"? Can Francis assist as good as Kidd? No! Nor can he rebound, steal, make smart decision and lead the team as good as Kidd. The only thing they are similar is TO. If we trade Francis for Kidd (hypothetical, of course), we gotta go straight to the Playoff and Nets become one of the worst team in the East, similar to the time when Marbury leads the Nets. Guess what? So who do u think is a better "overall" player, Francis or Kidd?
Francis is way more athletic than Kidd. But Kidd is more mature and experienced and intelligent... What do you expect? Not everyone can be like Jason Kidd. But...MAN TITO MADDOX IS FAST.
Francis can average more than 6 apg if he's more willing to dish to wide-open Yao Ming off pick and roll. Sportscenter anyone? Anyway, my take re Francis vs Nash/Bibby: If you start a team, you choose Francis because he's undoubtedly the best scorer here. If you have a team full of shooting stars, you choose Nash or Bibby because they are better passers and run team offense better.
Top Point Guards - as in Point Guard 1. <B>Jason Kidd</B> - amazing passer, smart decision maker 2. <B>Gary Payton</B> - hell of a defender, smart player, might be best PG by playing in the East 3. <B>Mike Bibby</B> - has ice in his vains, smart player, can really step it up and play at a championship level 4. <B>John Stockton</B> - consistency is his name, smart player, Jazz are going to be hurting when he retires 5. <B>Steve Nash</B> - consistency, smart player, 2nd coming of John Stockton 6. <B>Steve Francis/Marbury </B> - Both these player are more athletic then any other players above them, both can take over games, both make bone headed plays which hurt their ranking 8. <B>Baron Davis</B> - Played better in Char, number are down this year
I'm sure Francis is better than Marbury. Very sure. I bet Francis could have done better than Marbury in the 989 Skills Challenge during the All Star Weekend thingy. BUT DID EVERYONE FORGET ABOUT TONY PARKER? He is great!!! And he is only like 20 years old!!! Of course....he has Tim Duncan though.
Let's define what "best PG" means. If you just mean scoring, then Marbury is the best scoring PG. If "best PG" means assist. Then Gary is the best assist PG. My definition of "best PG" means that he's the best PG in terms of *running the team* scoring, assist, turnovers, steals, etc... Thus, my list. Gary Payton Jason Kidd John Stockton Steve Nash Baron Davis Mike Bibbi Jamaal Tinsley Tony Parker Stephon Marbury Steve Francis Jason Williams Derek Anderson Andre Miller Sam Cassell Gilbert Arenas
