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Bernie names names

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Dubious, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    Just because certain politicians make up bull**** doesn't mean that everyone has to. These companies are paying their fair share from the ones I have looked at. If they aren't then Bernie should report them to the IRS.
     
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    These companies are Republican?

    Wow didn't realize that
     
  3. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Honeywell had profits of $5 billion from 2009 to 2012. Yet it paid only $50 million in federal income taxes for the period. Its tax rate was just 1 percent over the last four years. This gave it a huge tax subsidy worth $1.7 billion.

    http://billmoyers.com/2014/05/29/10-companies-that-dodge-corporate-taxes/

    Would you say 1% is their fair share of taxes?
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Meh we are about to become an oil exporter. This crap about needing their oil is way outdated
     
  5. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Shareholders had to pay income tax.

    Corporate tax is pretty much double taxation
     
  6. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title

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    He named names?????

    [​IMG]

    No more Hop Sing's for Bernie.
     
  7. Major

    Major Member

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    All taxes are double or triple or gazillion taxation - that's how we tax things in this country. Every time a dollar changes hands, it gets taxed. When a corporation makes it, they are taxed. When they give it to someone else, it gets taxed. When that person then buys something, it gets taxed again. And so on.

    Double taxation is a meaningless term.

    That said, shareholders don't pay income taxes on corporate income anyway - not sure where on earth you came up with that idea.
     
  8. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Following that logic, when corporations pay their employees and they pay their income taxes that's also double taxation. This is BRILLIANT! Say no to double taxation!
     
  9. GlenDice

    GlenDice Member

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  10. GlenDice

    GlenDice Member

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    oh and liberals are saying they were plants from the GOP. hhahahahahahaha
     
  11. tomato

    tomato Member

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    I was them
     
  12. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    Simply just not accurate.

    Look at the SEC filings.

    If you can show me that the SEC filings are wrong or that I am missing something then I will gladly accept it. I think what you are referring to with the tax subsidy is a carryforward loss that Honeywell still has on their books. That amounts to about 1.87 billion and it's on page 55 of the second link. Are you against carryforward losses? If you have any numbers that are based in reality then I'd love to see them.

    http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/773840/000093041311000961/c63936_10-k.htm page 25

    http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/773840/000093041313000907/c72130_10-k.htm page 28

    2012 944 million 24.4%

    2011 417 million 18.3%

    2010 765 million 28.1%

    2009 465 million 22.7%


    I'll gladly say I'm mistaken if these numbers are wrong.
     
    #32 robbie380, Aug 9, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
  13. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    The fact is the 1% have controlled the narrative of politics in this country using divisive hot button issues like gay marriage, flag burning, foreign terrorism inside the borders aka "The Patriot Act", "death panels', Planned Parenthood, and so on while they buy Congress an enact laws that allow business to privatize profit and publicize risk, lock in debtors, stifle non-carbon innovation, allow banks to control banking policy like a fox running the hen house, privatize functions of the public like prisons and health insurance and guarantee their markets with draconian law etc. etc.. In order to move public opinion and gain traction with voters to retake power from the Oligarchs ( the people that can pay relentless lobbyist, give huge campaign donations, own propaganda arms of the public airwaves like FOX, and buy out competition) so that The People can make law and policy that serves The People, populists are going to have to use the same tactics the opposition uses and create the images that produce the impact. They are going to have to fire up the grass roots, exploit the democratic nature of social media, motivate young people and generally make class war a rallying cry.

    The other side has every advantage and no scruples about truth so it is going to take devastating guerrilla tactics like this to get a toe hold. I don't know how much truth is in the statement though I doubt Bernie's team would make it without a defensible definition of what they are saying. He certainly could be grilled about it on the morning shows this morning so it will be interesting to see. I just think this was a seminal moment in American politics, when populist stake the claim to the moral high ground and put a face on the absurdity of the past 20 years. The only impactful acts in the US are apparently the outrageous, there is no time left for subtlety or nuanced arguments:

    "these guys are criminal masterminds making billions on the backs of the middle class"

    That starts to have an impact.
     
    #33 Dubious, Aug 9, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
  14. Remii

    Remii Member

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    He's not going after anyone... He's letting these corporations know he's not handing out BJ's like these other politicians are doing. Who do you think alphabet boys like the FDA actually work for...???
     
  15. Classic

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    i hope corporate welfare to be a major theme of this campaign

    Hillary will support the status quo on the issue so good for Bernie providing some specifics.

    many will resist change though as their 401k/IRAs depend on it
     
  16. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    No, that's not "how things are done in this country." You are confusing separate transactions being taxed separately vs single corporate income taxed twice (corporate tax plus income tax when dividends distributed to shareholder).

    This has been debated a long time and is a fact. You can argue it's fine. But you can't argue it doesn't exist.


    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/encyclopedia/Dividends.cfm

    Dividends, double taxation of


    Joseph J. Cordes
    George Washington University

    Taxation that comes about in the U.S. tax system because corporate profits are taxed once by the corporate income tax and then again when these profits are distributed to shareholders.

    Income corporations earn in the United States is currently subject to two levels of tax. Corporate profits are subject to the corporate income tax. When these profits are distributed to the shareholders who own the corporations, these distributions are also included in the shareholders’ taxable income.

    The consequence of this system is that the return on equity investments in corporate activities is taxed twice
     
  17. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    Not enough people even have a 401(k) plan. Fifty-three percent of the population isn't covered. Since fewer than 10 percent of the population has a regular pension, a huge chunk of Americans depend solely on Social Security, whose typical benefit is $12,000 to $20,000 a year.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/100578392
     
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    No Democrats voted against the corporate welfare Ex Im bank.

    Bernie conveniently missed the vote to campaign.

    Democrats also tend to support protections for things like taxi companies. Party of corporate welfare.
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    You don't pay an income tax on dividends. You pay a dividend tax. It has it's own lower rate and everything. It's a separate transactional tax on an independent transaction.

    Corporate income is taxed at the corporate level and then when it's distributed to a non-liable owner - that is a separate transaction. Part of the deal of being a stockholder is that you're an arms-length from the company and thus treated as a separate entity. You are not involved in day-to-day decision making and you are not liable for the corporation's debts. Thus being an "owner" is distinct from being the company (unlike a sole proprietorship). Just as your income is taxed when you earn it and then again when you give it to someone else, a corporation's is taxed when they earn it and give it to someone else.

    We have multiple ways to tax transactions. People jumped onto the double taxation term for corporate income, but it actually is no different than how we tax any other money. Money is taxed when it changes hands, so paying out a dividend is a separate tax.
     
  20. Classic

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    Rich democrat donors might care ;)
     

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