Berkman 3rd in NL MVP voting

Max...Ive been a Stro's fan longer than Ive been a Rox fan.

My first ever autograph was as a kid waiting outside the dome and snaring a Jose Cruz autograph on my glove, back in the very early 80's after a Padre's game. So in all fairness, Im not some schmo just talking out the side of my arse.

 

then in all fairness..how can you in good faith claim that the astros are the clippers of mlb?

 

Over the last 5-10 years, what talent has "walked" besides Kile and Johnson? Remember, the Astros received Dotel (who you call the Astros best pitcher the past 2 years) directly and Ausmus indirectly from the Hampton trade. The Astros did not resign Alou who I suspect will either bounce back offensively this year or be hurt again, but his signing would have been hard to justify. Aside from Kile and Johnson, I am having trouble thinking of players who are (or were) contributing positively to other teams that have "walked".

 

Guitty- Ok so he was no star, but we decided to go with no bat Russ Johnson instead of paying Ricky a mediocre, on par contract.

Kile- Youve mentioned

Johnson- Youve mentioned, I know your going to say he went for more money in another place, but we decided both were not worth more and both Kile and Johnson (outside of a stint in Rockyville) proved to be worth it.

Hampton- We decided to give the Money to one of our two "star" pitchers one year, instead of - hey get this - trying to sign both. We made a mistake on Lima, and Hampy probably didnt take it with a grain of salt that Lima was given the big money and not him.

Carl Everett- He sucked for the Rangers last year, but he was at the time our best overall player...our only true 5 tool player. Yeah, "OFFICIALLY" we traded him. Unofficially we didnt want to deal with a new contract so we dumped him for crappy Adam Everette...didn't we learn our lesson with Russ Johnson about crappy hitting SS's?

Moises Alou- Yep he had a terrible season last year, but again he was killer as an Astro when he wasnt injured, yeah it sucked he hurt himself, but he was the only ASTRO that actually wasn't putting up declining numbers each year. His numbers spoke for themselves. Look at his Batting average with runners in scoring position.

Pedro Astacio- I understand he got hurt, but he did manage to prove that outside of Coors Field he could be a Solid to dominate pitcher for the most part. He slowed down a lot at the end of the season last year, but he showed his worth and I suspect coming of arm surgery didnt help his conditioning towards the end of the year.

Louis Gonzalez- He wasnt a star by any means as an ASTRO, but he was solid, and again instead of showing him a mediocre contract he was searching for, we decided not to.

Those are some of the players, I could get into.

Now, if things go well with developement of our current crop of young good players, do we really think that Drayton is going to keep them, even when Bags, and Bigg's contracts are gone? Is there any doubt that Dotel has earned it?

As far as the Clipps comparison goes, maybe I stretched a bit. Only because the Astro's have been winners. What Im saying is that this team can just never build any chemistry when we are always letting people go to greener pastures and filling them in with cheaper options. We are the clipps when it comes to letting talent walk...thats all.

 

Guttierez was not signed as the Astros decided to go with Bogar (worse hitter than Johnson) and Spiers at SS. Although Ricky was a decent player he does not qulaify as "talent".

As I mentioned the Astros traded Hampton. He did not walk. Hampton told the Astros he WOULD NOT negotiate until after the 2000 season as he wanted to test the free agent waters. Rather than lose him for nothing (as they did with Johnson and Kile), they traded him for the pitcher that you say has been their best the past two years. They also received Cedeno and were able to parlay him into Ausmus. So they indirectly received a gold glove catcher who has been credited with helping their young pitchers and arguably the best set up man in baseball. Would you rather they have kept Hampton and not had Dotel and Ausmus?

Everett is a cancer in the locker room. You mentioned chemistry, Everett certainly did not add to it. There was more to that trade than meets the eye. Granted, the Astros should have gotten more (and Greg Miller may eventually prove they did get more). You do realize that Carl Everett was paid 8 million last year and hit .267 with 16 HRs and 62 RBI? In addition, the Astros outfield was crowded in 2000 with Hidalgo, Alou and Cedeno.

It was hard to justify them signing Astacio. He was hurt and did not have surgery which the Astros and other teams thought he should have. Perhaps Pedro was right, but he was a pretty bad pitcher (4-8 7.00 ERA) after the All-Star game.

Luis is currently a great player, always has been a great teammate and a great guy, however, in 1997 he hit .258 with 10 HRs for Houston. It wasn't much of a loss to let him walk at that time. No team in baseball would have predicted that Gonzo would turn into the offensive machine he has become.

Although Alou's numbers were great in 2000 and 2001, they did decline. Unfortunately he had a fairly dramatic decline after the All Star game in 2001.

 

My bad...your right....Bogar, not Russ Johnson.


The rest is "Tomato/Tamoto"

Guittey was not talent, but the Stro's have been through what, 4 or 5 short stops since and none are close to as consistantly good as he was. Lugo may make that claim soon though.

Carl also had a MVP type season in Boston. And as far as anyone knows he was not a cancer in Houston.

Hampy was more than likely P.O'ed that the Stros were so quick to drop the dimes on Lima and not him.

 

I am just so O happy bout the positives...I know the negatives is big and ugly but with the Stros, it is often neccesary to wear the rosy colored sunshine glasses to be a fan..