Hey genius...the Astros could sign the entire roster of the All Star team....sell out every game...keep the payroll current...and STILL lose money. You OBVIOUSLY don't understand the economics of baseball.
Berkman signed a 3 year deal after his excellent 2001 season. There was no need for the Astros to do so. They could have simply signed him to a 1 year $300,000 contract according to the MLB CBA. They could have again signed him to a cheap deal for the 2003 season. Berkman had absolutely no recourse. He was subject to baseball's CBA. To both sides credit, they arrived at a mutual deal that BOTH sides are happy with. Berkman had a 3 year semblance of security while the Astros had a goodwill relationship with a budding star. Berkman has quite possibly the best contract for a 2+ year major leaguer in the game. His situation is certainly better than Albert Pujols. Berkman's contract is similar to the one Guerrero signed at about the same point in his career with one exception. Vladimir's was for 5 years. Vlad made 1 million the first year, followed by 3.5 then 6. In other words, the first 3 years were worth the same as Lance's first 3 years. I am quite confident that, barring injury, Berkman will be an Astros for many more years. Face the facts, Berkman's contract is extremely fair, comparable and better than players with similar offensive ability at similar points in their careers. You may have seemingly valid concerns about the Astros salary situation, but this is one that is a non-issue.
If the Astros aren't resigning Dotel long-term (debatable since he's a setup man), maybe they think Stone can fill Dotel's role eventually.
OK...you know so much about economics and baseball. Tell us, oh sage one, why are the Braves and the current World Series champion Angels for sale as "nonproductive assets?" Seems as though everybody is feeling the crunch due to escalating salaries. Please check your facts prior to posting such garbage.
Garbage? How is my post garbage? If I was telling a lie then you could call it whatever but I guess the truth hurts.The Braves have a World Series and went to 5 in the 90's and they draw huge crowds on the road so you stop posting garbage.
And yet...AOL is still thinking about selling them. How odd. You would think that if this team was so adept at making money that a corportation, an entity that has very little sentimental attachment to the team, would not be looking into selling them. Oh well, they must be wrong. Yeah, that's it. They're must all be wrong.
1. The Braves don't even sell out playoff games. Some good fan support there. 2. The city of Anaheim just found out they had a team about 3 months ago. Crappy fans will always equate to losses or a small payroll.
And yet the Braves were the most dominating team in the NL in the 90's. People who don't follow baseball know who the Atlanta Braves are. Thats a winning franchise, they care about winning and they will always be in good shape. You think if Chipper Jones and Andruw Jones had come up the Astros minor league system that Drayton Mcclain would had opened his wallet and kept them?? Thats why the Braves are who they are and the Astros are where they are. No contest.
the braves will "always be in good shape??" hmmmm...not many people said that during the Dale Murphy days of the 1980's...they were a laughingstock... by the way...this isn't the 90's anymore...it's the 21st century...and AOL is looking for a buyer. the reds were among the most dominant teams in the 70's...doesn't do them much good right now. looks to me like the braves aren't going to resign their two best pitchers in the offseason, either. ummm...our two best players over the course of the last 10 years or so are Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio...mclane locked them up big time...so i'm guessing if bagwell had been named chipper and biggio and been named andrew, mclane would have done the same for them too.
Dude, exactly what point are you trying to prove? That the Braves were damn good for a long time? I don't think anyone is arguing that. Are you trying to prove that spending a lot of money on your players and free agents means you will be successful? I can point to several teams where that hasn't been the case. Are you trying to prove that Drayton McClane isn't losing money? I can't seem to get a read here.
UGH....Ok anyone who thinks Drayton is thinking win first is SERIOUSLY mistaken. The guy is like any other middle of the road Owner. No different. He's not committed to winning. He's committed to Bottom line. Kinda like a Sterling for the Clipps. Anyone who doesnt think the Astros are the Clipps of Baseball is seriously delusional. The only difference is that the Stro's must field 9, not 5. Hence they kept Baggy. And all but let Bigg walk. The only reason we are not the Clippers in wins every year is because of Baggs, and Bigg. (Up until recently). If Dotel ends up walking (as our best pitcher over the last two years) then Im going to be seriously fed up with the Stro's. Dont know off hand whats left on Dotels contract. And we cant keep using the "We went to X amount of playoffs in x amount of years" alot of those were when we had talent and then decided to let them walk...hence our last 3 years average of what something like 79 wins per season. Out of the playoffs two of those years. If this team stays as is, how do we consider ourselves contenders? Berkman has stalled in the stretch run the last two years, maybe he wont this year. Is it Doggy thats going to pick up the slack? Maybe Bigg wont keep showing his age. Our only hope is through Wade, Roy, and potentially Carlos. As is going into next year we are pretenders, wishing to be contenders, holding on to our last gasp of decent play from Baggs, Bigg, Doggy, and hoping that Ward comes out of it next season. If what we had = 84 wins this year, what does it equate to next year? You guys seem to forget that this is the guy who clamored for his NEW quazibillion dollar park and immediately set a middle of the road cap on his team the same season it opened up (what something like 60 million) When you have Bags, Bigg, Reynolds eating up almost half of that, what were we left with really. And the fans are showing their "appreciation" at the gate.
And that's the reason the Astros aren't flirting with a date in bankruptcy court like the D-Backs and Devil Rays are. No...and that's part of the problem. This "middle of the road looking to the bottom line" owner rewarded Doggy with a HUGE contract so he'd stay put. Doggy responded by completely tanking. AT THE TIME he asked for the ballpark the revenue streams generated would have put us right up there with the Yankees. During the time the park was being constructed, the Yankees entered into a TV contract that was unprecedented. Now there's no way to keep up with them. The teams that are coming close to the Yankees payroll are taking on unbelieveable amounts of debt to do so. Not a good strategy for longevity of the franchise.
Refman...I think you misunderstand me. When I claim Drayton to be more committed to the bottom line, Im not saying he is particularly wrong. I just hate that he owns the team that I root for. Its not as if he has gone out of his way to produce a winner in Houston...Not Like LES has. He inherited Baggs and Bigg (And I believe Hampy, and Kile-cant remember when he took over, maybe Im wrong) and at least a core of a team that was headed for the playoffs. We have let more talent walk in the last 5-10 years than could possibly be percieved. Which angers me. Somewhere, something tells me that if we were a team that stuck together and kept its stars, then the fans would show up for ASTRO games, and he could actually go after a World Series. I KNOW that the Stro's have had more than enough talent to take the prize home the last 5 years, and barring a bad series against the PADS we might of grabbed one that year, but to continuously let our players walk is making us the chumps of the league. Tell me, what happens when Roy, Wade, (and assuming at Carlos can come back from his injuries) Carlos, and maybe Ward (assuming he could put it back together at the plate) are up for paydays. You want to know what it was like to be the Cubs and losing Maddux? Wait till Drayton decides either Roy or Wade have to go. Or that because of Doggy's contract he cant give any more to Ward.
Yes the Braves will be in good shape. They have the talent and have the winning attitude in the front office to stay on top. The team has won its division for 12 straight years. You can't do that unless you have a top payroll with good players all around the diamond not just at a couple of positions. The Astros big signing last offseason was Jose Vizcaino and Geoff Blum while the Braves went out and got a guy who could help them stay on top (Gary Sheffield). Thats the difference between a wining franchise and a losing franchise. I know the Braves lost in the first round but atleast they were in the mix and won 100 ball games this year. The Astros can't get in and when they do they bat .150 as a team. You can take up for the Astros all you want but you and I both know the Braves have a great front office and a great franchise. Im not a Braves fan but Im just telling you the truth.
In terms of the Braves discussion, they will always have a clear advantage in terms of revenue generation because of their television deal. TBS and WGN were grandfathered in under the previous set of broadcasting rules, thereby giving the Cubs and Braves a much larger audience to market to. All other teams must adhere to zoning regulations whereby they can only broadcast their games within a defined area. Although Drayton's frugal spending is frustrating, at least he is not contributing to the salary feeding frenzy by bidding high dollar on free agents. Good for him for keeping costs in check, running a profitable operation, and fielding a competitive team. If more owners spent within their means, like Drayton, then the economics of baseball wouldn't be as screwed up as they currently are.
Under the economic conditions that exist in MLB right now...no other owner would behave much differently. If George Steinbrenner had to deal with the Astros revenue streams, he wouldn't substantially outspend what Drayton is. Apples and oranges. Les has the benefit of a salary cap and restricted free agency where he'd get a chance to match what another team offered one of his free agents. Drayton has neither of these available to him. Case in point....Darryl Kile. We made him an offer of $7M, which was the going rate for that type of pitcher at the time. He said he was going to mull it over. DK went on vacation to Hawaii. While he was there, his agent got a call from Colorado. He likely told the Rockies that he had a $7M offer on the table. The Rockies immediately countered with $8M. DK signed the contract upon his return to the mainland. When the Astros got the call from DK that they had been expecting it wasn't to continue negotiations, it was to infom the club that he had signed with Colorado. If we had an NBA or NFL type system in place we could have matched the offer within 7 days. It's frustrating. I understand that. Nobody wants the Astros to win more than me. I would prefer that the Astros behave in a financially sound manner so we never have the team operated by credit unions the way we had it in the late 70s and early 80s. That was horrible. Fans in KC, Tampa, Miami, Montreal, Milwaukee, San Diego, Baltimore, Chicago, Cinncinati, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Dallas and Toronto would probably disagree with that statement. Bags and Bidge will be gone and that money will go to pay those guys. If Ward doesn't step it up he won't be worth giving a payday to. If he should deserve a payday, Doggie's huge deal will be over (it only has 2 years left on it). Drayton has been able to keep the franchise cornerstones right where they are. Plus he has given big extensions to Berkman and Vizcaino. he hasn't been afraid to throw some bucks around where the baseball minds in management have told him he needs to.
I'm not sure that has so much to do with them being such a great team as it does that there is an unbalanced schedule and they're in far and away the worst division in baseball. The second place team finished 4 games over .500 and the rest of the division was way off of that pace. BTW...they're trimming payroll as well. Gee and just 12 years ago they were one of the worst teams in baseball with attendance that would make the Expos laugh. Have they been great the last decade? Yes. But this isn't a franchise that has been storied for its greatness.
1. will be in good shape for how long? you said "always" in your previous post....in my experience, very few things can be qualified as "always." 2. the braves are an anomaly...you're comparing the astros to the braves, a team with a superstation who is owned by the largest media company in the world...this gets back to the problems with the economics of baseball...but if you're insinuating that the astros are a clunker franchise, you're just wrong... 3. how is batting .150 in the playoffs the fault of the owners/management? you spend money on guys who get you to the playoffs...when they do, you assume their postseason performance will be reasonably similar to their season performance...i don't fault mclane for biggio not being able to get on base in playoff games. 4. the fact is, management and ownership built a team that had very legit chances at winning the whole thing 3 times in the last 5 years (i'm excluding 1997 division champions)...the 98 team finished with the best record in the NL...they failed to show up in the playoffs...but the team was built to win. Dreamshake compared the Clippers to the Astros...COME ON!!! In baseball only 8 teams in a 30 team league make the playoffs...in hoops, 16 teams of out a 29 team league make the playoffs!! The Astros have made the playoffs 4 times in the last 6 seasons...that's pretty damn good. The Clippers can't crack the playoffs at all, though more teams in the NBA make the playoffs than don't. The Astros have made some strong moves in the offseason...more importantly, they've developed talent. The Clippers have never done either. The Astros aren't the Lakers of MLB...but they're definitely not the Clippers. That's just ridiculous. Nothing like a bunch of hoops fans talking baseball...coming from an nba perspective where making the playoffs means next to nothing, it's no wonder the astros playoff appearances are so under-appreciated.
