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Ben Simmons getting a new zip code?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by vator, Jul 13, 2021.

  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Just a lot of incompetence around Simmons and the 76ers.

    Doc Rivers NEVER should have said what he said in the press conference. He was honest when he answered the question, but that isn't his job as a head coach and he should have known how mentally fragile and weak Simmons was. Hell, Simmons has long been coddled and treated like a pampered child. Doc Rivers is a 60 year old man with lots of experience coaching entitled young men..... Rivers really screwed up.

    Embiid said what he said, he is a younger guy and your franchise player is sometimes going to say things that are true and no one wants to hear. Still, he should have reached out and attempted to smooth over any issues with Simmons. Everyone paying attention knew that Simmons wasn't guaranteed to fetch a star in return and there was a good chance Simmons would have to come back.

    Daryl Morey screwed up immediately jumping to say he would trade Simmons AND poorly judging the trade market. Daryl assumed Beal and Lillard would be available and they aren't. Daryl was over confident.

    Rich Paul screwed up in immediately jumping to "trade Ben", and assuming that he would immediately get his way like he did with Anthony Davis. This is a different situation, Simmons isn't as valuable and is under contract for years.

    Simmons ****ed up because he is lazy, is more interested in being a social media celebrity and doesn't challenge himself. He has the physical ability to be the best player in the world and puts forth literally no effort and will not go outside his comfort zone. Also leaving Philadelphia is only going to make his social media influence decrease. He seems to think he can pick where he goes, and thinks he will go to NY or Southern California... and he isn't good enough to dictate that type of move. He is likely going to a team like the Kings or Blazers or the Wolves where he will just be forgotten.
     
  2. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Right.... classic Rich Paul..... well, it also isn't the Sixers responsibility to trade Simmons if no one is offering anything appealing.

    Simmons is under contract, he can hold out and be fined or he can report at play.

    This isn't quite the same as Harden ...... the Sixers can be competitive with Simmons holding out.
     
    ParaSolid, Slyonebluejay and JumpMan like this.
  3. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    I can only assume....

    Doc: Made that eye-opening admission because he thought Simmons would have at least met him halfway, considering how much praise Rivers gave him during the season and how hard he defended Simmons against criticism. Rivers miscalculated that Simmons was wired like a KG, Pierce, Embiid, etc.

    Embiid: I think Embiid only defended Simmons up until this point is because he thought he really had a teammate he can rely upon..at least someone who was going to elevate his game to help Embiid out.

    Morey: well...this is just Morey being Morey

    Paul: is an idiot.


    I haven't seen a player with as much potential, skill, and talent just wasting all away like Ben Simmons. It's been a while...Derrick Coleman? Rasheed Wallace? Lamar Odom? It's a shame that he has no desire to be more.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Rasheed Wallace and Lamar Odom didn't become franchise players like they were capable of, but at a minimum they knew how to win. They wouldn't have passed up a layup. They just didn't have the mentality of the drive to be franchise players. Derrick Coleman and Antoine Walker both were guys that were extremely selfish. They didn't put in the work to be great, but would take shots to the point of icing out other players.

    It is hard to think of another player with the same type of issues that Simmons has. I can think of players that were lazy or short sighted.... entitled even, but it is hard to think of a player with the talent of Simmons that is actually scared to shoot. I guess the closest I can think of from a mentality standpoint is Dwight Howard, who lacked the discipline to be great on offense, but also was afraid to shoot under pressure.... but he is a center and Simmons is a guard.

    The reality is that at some point, people will have to accept that Simmons is an elite role player like Draymond Green or Dennis Rodman. He can pass, defend and run the floor and is versatile but he isn't going to go outside his comfort zone and if you try to get him to, he will refuse and crumble.
     
  5. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    A reality that makes Simmons overpaid.
     
  6. DaBeard

    DaBeard Member

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  7. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    A bit hyperbolic. He puts up +/- 15,7,7 with 2 steals every year, on decent efficiency while being a top 5 defender, with 2 first team all-defenses, and one all nba appearance.

    He can't shoot. Everyone knows this.

    He ****ed up his head on free throws in the playoffs last year. This is on him. AND on Doc, who I think is the exact opposite kind of coach for a Ben Simmons in that situation.

    It'd be great if Simmons could learn how to shoot 3s or FTs. If he can't, but you know those limitations and don't f' with his head, I think he's about the player we expect him to be talent wise and he is paid to be.

    Do I want Simmons? No.

    Do I think its underappreciate how losing Simmons could hurt the Sixers? Yes. Which might be why DM is reluctant to part with him absent a great package. It's not the offensive side, its the defensive side. Sixers were 2nd in the league in defense last year. Replacing a Simmons for, hypothetically, a CJ McCollum, would REALLY hurt their defense, even though it clearly helps their offense.
     
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  8. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    To be fair, this isn't like an e-mail accidentally sent to everyone in a company about how crappy of an employee you are. Doc's particular soundbite was literally distributed to anyone who cared to listen to it and / or report about it. Everyone associated with the NBA and everyone in sports media had a shot to blast Simmons (or defend him) and agree with Doc (or disagree).

    And if it wasn't scrutinized then, the fallout would be worse. In the age of social media, this was extremely harmful. Hurts Ben Simmons' feelings. Hurts Doc's 'good' image. Hurts Philly's chances of getting a good return for Simmons.

    No positive thing resulted from 10 seconds of Doc saying he doesn't know if Simmons has what it takes.
     
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  9. Jalen Green OnlyFan

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    Who gets traded first Simmons or Watson
     
  10. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    I don't really care much about elected honors such as all-defense, all-nba, all-star, mvp, etc. These things are the results of subjective impressions of the voters. (Funny people keep talking derisively about how clueless sports media personalities are yet care so much about their voting results.)

    Simmons is a great defensive player. But individual defense is notoriously difficult to measure objectively because basketball defense is in large part a team thing. This is why almost all superstars are elite offensive players. Offensive impact is much easier to gauge. A great offensive player can singlehandedly elevate a team's offense. The same cannot be said about defensive players.

    A player who can't shoot and averages only around 15 ppg is definitely not superstar material and should not be paid the super max. Simmons being overpaid as he is now is not even debatable IMO.
     
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  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Yes, a lot of this is on Simmons passing up a dunk and then Doc Rivers not thinking before he spoke.

    This isn't the first time Rivers has said things that he really shouldn't have said either.... he should have known better and had he handled the situation differently, it is possible Simmons isn't as mad at the organization.
     
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  12. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    AWESOME!!!
     
  13. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Morey really walked away from potentially trading James Harden at the peak of his value to finding a way to unload Simmons at the rock bottom of his.


    Chef's kiss.
     
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  14. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

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    Agreed with most of this. Simmons has possibly become underrated at this point.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2022-nba-player-projections/ben-simmons/

    538’s player projections are interesting and for the most part I agree with a lot of what they have projected.

    They value him(based on projected wins added) at 5 years ~155 million. His actual deal is 5 years ~177 million.

    An overpay, but not catastrophic. This isn’t John Wall or Westbrook level production at super max pay.

    Something tells me a new team will do a lot for the mental side of his shooting woes. I don’t think he will ever be a great shooter but I think some of his reluctance to shoot will fade. We will see.
     
  15. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    Completely agreed. Under no circumstances should you throw your player under the bus like that, regardless of how bad he is/was. The imminent dissolution of the relationship between Simmons and the 76ers is basically the only thing that can happen.
     
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  16. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    He needs to be the Draymond Green on a mid-late 2010s Warriors team, where that team already has potent offensive weapons. Unfortunately, there's not a team that's like that right now, that can afford him.

    The Nets or the now-Golden State would be pretty solid spots for him, but neither team can afford to trade for him.
     
  17. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    I mean... i think the honors are relevant. They aren't usually completely stupid, don't make sense honors. And they reflect his game.

    Your point on defense is right for most, except the select few, of which Ben is. Ben, Draymond, Lebron (not anymore but at points)... true 5 position defenders that almost on their own you can build your whole defense around. Of course the Sixers have Embiid, too.

    Like I don't want him, but that's as a Rockets fan given the state of the organization currently. If I was the Kings, I'd be ALL OVER him. They've sucked forever and what he brings is in some ways exactly what they need.
     
  18. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
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    I don't think this guy has tried to improve this though. I can't imagine the 76ers organization being that incompetent of not finding a way to get him comfortable shooting. If Ben wanted to be comfortable shooting, he would put in the work to get there.

    I said it before, he isn't a bad player, in fact, his defense and running the team at his height and athleticism makes him a great player to have in the right situation. He can't be your 2nd option though.
     
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  19. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    Simmons has an overly bad rap. Very good player, needs new place desperately.

    But, getting a star back when BS’ contract is at issue? Very difficult.

    But - - CJ? Excellent start for a trade. For both. Cavs and Wolves reportedly are jonesing for him. Great. Now make salaries work. Oops, not easy.

    Dallas, Porzingas? Why not a start there?
    Do Knixies have enough salary room to start Barrett in the convo?

    Let us not dis BS too strongly. The man is good. He’ll get better. Elsewhere.
     
  20. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    he is a great player just not worth losing games on purpose for years only to get this production out of him....lololololol
    i applaud basketball gods for this parody!

     
    Jalen Green OnlyFan likes this.

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