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Ben DuBose: Fertitta’s goal is limiting the “bad years” to one or two seasons

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by csnerd84, Mar 31, 2021.

  1. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    Wasn't meant to be a comparison at all, it was an analogy. I'm sorry that you took it that way. People can make the same analogy with anything that I post, I'm just one person.

    Anyway, GMs say lots of things, when on the record. Similar to how Daryl said Philly wasn't trading Ben Simmons, yet we all know he was on the table. It doesn't benefit anyone for him to say "yeah, I didn't really want to do it, but James was out the door if I didn't."
     
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  2. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    I have literally seen, with my own eyes, Tim having numerous one-on-one conversations with members of the front office. I've talked with him personally about various things he's learned. He is extremely plugged in, yes.

    That goes against everything that Daryl has said about Tilman publicly, and everything I've heard behind the scenes. He "ducked out of his contract" by going to an East team, which he had told Tilman and others for years was his plan. Once it was clear that Harden wasn't sticking around, there was no reason for Daryl to stay unless he was going to stick around through the rebuild, and clearly he didn't want to do that.

    As for the rest of it, I certainly haven't seen evidence that MDA was against Russ. Moreover, yes, they clearly prioritized Butler over Russ — but it didn't work out. Then they went the Russ route.

    The other parts, it's not worth it to argue. Quite frankly, even if we do accept your view of the basketball merits of the trade at the time, Daryl would be the first to tell you that he's made plenty of mistakes. My point isn't to try and relitigate the trade or "well actually" it, my only point was to illustrate how many of you are running with several assumptions about how it all went down. Which is certainly your right, I'm not trying to change your mind. All I was doing was pushing back at the notion that anyone who doesn't subscribe to those theories is ignoring evidence. Ultimately, I think we can agree to disagree and accept that we've each heard different things and have different interpretations.
     
    #162 The Cat, Apr 1, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
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  3. HTM

    HTM Member

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    I will trade 15 bad years for a championship.
     
  4. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Tilman has Aids!
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    I think I just shed a tear reading this! Bravo! This man gets it.
     
  5. jerryclark

    jerryclark Member

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    The bad years are every year with fertitty as owner
     
  6. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    He can have as many one on ones as he wants, wether they actually tell him any relevant information is not something I buy. And if none of them lol wanted Russ and we're being forced into this do you think they would tell him that? Why would any with any modicum of knowledge of analytics want Westbrook? Especially coming off of that performance? None of these guys are gonna throw the owner under the buss while they are working there, none of them. Of course not. Tim says he's never heard anyone tell him otherwise and yet he still believes Morey was forced into this trade. I wonder why it would be like that. So no, I dont trust him and I dont trust that anyone would tell him anything that would make Tillman look bad.

    What else is Daryl going to say about his boss publicly? You cant just claim Daryl would lie about something on TV and then use that to say he was telling the truth about Tillman. What have you heard behind the scenes? Because the only report I have ever read about their relationship is that it was contentious, it was a ringer article that said this. There was never any indication that Daryl was quitting once this season was over. It happend in the middle of the off season. Everyone said Daryl was going to spend time with family LOL. And then what happend. Harden didnt request a trade until after Silas was hired. Daryl quit well before that. Im sorry Ben but you cant undue how bad that looks. Daryl pretended to resign and then resigned with another team.

    Dantoni would never want Russ over Cp3, that's a fact. Do you think the guy who had Nash, Harden and Cp3 would want someone like Russ, there is no possible way that Dantoni would ever be on board with this.
     
  7. napalm06

    napalm06 Fertitta-McNair School of Management
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    Honestly I really want to believe you, and I'm not questioning your credibility, but anything supportive of Tilman or that seems to indicate the moves of the past 3 years were made by well intentioned, analytical people makes no sense to my brain. It would be the equivalent of Rick Smith coming out and saying Bill Obrien is great and the Hopkins trade was wise.
     
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  8. DeBeards

    DeBeards Member

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    We brought back a squad of injured players or players injury-prone, n he used as that an excuse to dump salary, well designed, wht a clown!
     
  9. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    Harden admitted in his Brooklyn intro presser that he did a lot of thinking about his situation in the bubble. Daryl lived at the bubble the entire time, without his wife and kids. Spoiler: They talked about it. The difference is that a player can take his time with requesting a deal, there's always a market for a superstar. With executives and coaches, there's a limited movement window. Also, it would've been a dick move for Daryl to run point on the coaching search and make the final decision, if he wasn't going to be there. Fortunately, Daryl's a good guy and he wasn't going to do that.

    I admit that public comments shouldn't be taken that seriously, I just referenced it because it's one of the only samples we have. But I agree, the value is limited. Behind the scenes, I always heard the relationship was way better than a lot of folks around the league thought. Not saying they were best friends or anything crazy, but nothing contentious at all.

    That's you, projecting! Which, you might be right, I get where you're coming from. But it's definitely not a fact.

    Side note: Tilman definitely didn't have a good relationship with MDA's agent. I don't know that I'd say that he and MDA were on bad terms, MDA often took himself out of the equation when it came to "bigger picture" stuff. He wasn't the confrontational type. But Tilman and the FO did have a contentious relationship with Warren LeGarie, which played some role in the overall instability.
     
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  10. Downtown Sniper

    Downtown Sniper Contributing Member

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    Tilman: Best I can do is two decades of bad, and zero championship.
     
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  11. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    Yeah but this guy is FAAAAR more likely to lie. Something being reported, especially in the sports world, doesn't make it true.

    Especially when you have the owner, a direct participant, admitting otherwise.

    It's honestly so unusual that you would believe an indirect sourceless report over an actual direct report from a person who has 0 motive to lie unless you believe he would protect James Harden vs himself or the organization.

    Anyway, dead horse.
     
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  12. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    It's not unusual at all, the Tilman interview you're referencing was from September 2019. It would've been horrific for the organization if he had said "Harden was out the door unless we did this."

    No one is denying that Tilman played a role in getting it to the finish line. The point is that he had some pressure applied to him, too.
     
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  13. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

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    The Rockets Scouting really needs to Prove themselves in knowing who are the best College Players that can become Really Good NBA Players.

    The Late 1st Round Picks, Early 2nd Round Picks are crucial to this Team in finding the best Talent Available.

    KJ Martin Jr. a Early Second Round Pick by Sacramento than traded to Houston.

    These type of Players, a Diamond waiting to be found. KJ Martin Jr coming from a Unknown School, maybe wasnt Fully Scouted from NBA Teams.

    Defensive Small Forwards, Centers that can shoot and create for themselves, Rebounding are needed on the Rockets.
     
  14. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Harden also indirectly said that Morey and Dantoni not being there were factors in his decision to leave Brooklyn. Im not sure I follow the logic, Harden could have just requested the trade in private at any time. He even did this AFTER the coaching search. It makes no sense for him to take that long if he always going to leave. If they did talk about it, Morey would not have been upset to know that Dantoni wasnt coming back. Daryl is a good guy but if he was quiting, he could have just resigned at the end of the season. There was no indication there that Daryl was leaving at that point. Daryl left in the middle of the coaching search. Van Gundy had no idea that Daryl wasnt going to be there either.

    And if Tillman and Daryl did have a better relationship than what people thought, tell me why there are reports out there(reputable ones) that say Tillman didnt want to deal with Morey. Why did the organization or Daryl lie and say he wanted to spend more time with family and then immediately took another job? That looks bad no matter how you wanna slice it.

    Thats fair. I dont believe Mike ever wanted him but I have no proof.

    MDA did not seem to like him either. The way he left the Rockets was not on good terms.
     
  15. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    What reports are those? Genuinely asking, I know it wasn't from anyone here. I vaguely remember some gossipy stuff, but unless I'm misremembering, it wasn't from someone in a position to know much. As for the second part, that happens in a lot of high-dollar corporate jobs, unfortunately. I don't think anyone knowingly lied, but the moment Daryl wasn't contractually bound to the Rockets, everyone knew there was a possibility that he could get poached. That Morey-Fertitta presser in mid-October was basically a PSA to teams on the East Coast (i.e. not competitors in the West) that Morey would be on the market, and the Rockets wouldn't fight them. Philly then expedited the timetable.

    What a lot of national media don't seem to get, there was actually more friction between the coaches and GM in my opinion, than there was between the GM and owner. Not so much because Daryl and Mike didn't get along, they did, but there were some significantly frayed relationships between MDA's agent and the front office. There was also major turnover in the assistant coaching staff beneath MDA, which he didn't have any say in (fairly unusual in the NBA), and that didn't help matters.

    The bottom line, the entire situation was a powderkeg after what happened in the 2019 playoffs. Does Tilman deserve some blame? Sure. But overall, there was a lot going on. Will be curious to see what they all say in a few years. That's why I'm pushing back some on the CP-Russ talk — that was a very unusual offseason. Basically, folks were looking for any potential reason to make a change.
     
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  16. s3ts

    s3ts Member

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    He was a worse contract. It isn't new for the Rockets to over compensating on the trades. The problem is that CP had turned his contract into an albatross one essentially in a single year.

    He did a good job at OKC, doing a good job at PHX. But the contract still sucks.

    Also, he did the worst to the Rockets that final year here. Again, if he didn't do that, this franchise would be in a different place.
     
  17. CXbby

    CXbby Contributing Member

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    People that know nothing probably shouldn't argue with people far more plugged in than they are, just because reality does not fit with their little delusions.

    Morey and Harden had a interview together after the trade, under no uncertain terms Harden stated that he called Morey on a daily basis asking why is the trade taking so long. That absolutely corroborates with him asking for a trade if the Westbrook deal did not go through.

    No one here is absolving Tilman of complete blame, pushing the trade through probably hurt the price of the trade that we ended up paying. The problem is delusional fans pitting ALL the blame on Tilman and thinking Morey and Harden had no part in it. Yes Tilman was the decision maker in the end, but what exactly do you think Morey was negotiating all that time beforehand if he had absolutely no interest in Westbrook?

    Harden is absolutely at fault for wanting his little buddy here in the first place. Morey is at fault in two ways, first succumbing and enabling his franchise player, which he was already doing for years and in the end finally caught up to him in this disastrous demand. And two, the negotiations and price he ended up paying, no one held a gun to his head for that, the offer was not 2 picks and Tilman insisted on adding 2 more. Morey is in charge of negotiating the deal and what came about was an utter disaster. To his credit he had cold feet in pulling the trigger, and to Tilman's fault he meddled where he absolutely should not have and pulled the trigger himself. But the deal was consummated by Morey and he should absolutely and forever be held responsible for coming up with one of the worst trades in NBA history, doesn't matter if he hesitated in the end and his boss was the one that pushed it through, he was still a very vital part of that whole deal making process. For shame!
     
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  18. CXbby

    CXbby Contributing Member

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    Thank you @The Cat for bringing some sanity to what has become a land of delusion and make believe. I get that people hate Tilman, so therefore he must be at fault for all that is wrong with the Rockets, and life itself. But that doesn't make it actually true. Just by saying that multiple people have called me a Tilman stooge, when in actuality I have never said a good thing about Tilman before! He think he is partly to blame, but the witch hunt is at a state where if you don't admit that he is the devil incarnate, then you are a witch yourself.
     
  19. BigBum

    BigBum Member

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    Next year could be a good year if Stone makes 2 good trades to bring up two proven young stars.
     
  20. HP3

    HP3 Member

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