Well, you just called me a fool, so take your take and shove it. I've studied history for decades, including that of China. While I've only been to Hong Kong, I've literally traveled around the world, so my experience with different cultures comes not simply from books. It is ironic that your "broad brush" painting of Americans is exactly what you claim to find wrong with Americans regarding some of their opinions about the Chinese government. I have had to experience reading just what I referred to in my post here many and many a time. Endless and now predictable defenses of China after any criticism, no matter how mild, no matter what the topic. From where I sit, it is based on a sense of inferiority, shared by the authoritarian government of China, in my opinion, that is absurd. Why so many members here feel that way is a mystery to me. I can understand the CCP's reasoning, as they surely know that their power cannot last forever, and they continue to take whatever measures they think continue that power, but those who post here? I don't get it. I've made endless criticisms of the American government in D&D, when I felt it was deserved. Far, far more than anything I've said about China. I don't care if others criticize our government or our history. If I disagree and think it is worth responding, I do. What I do find irritating is the persistent dredging up of both Chinese and American history to "justify" actions by the Chinese government today. That and the micro-analyzing any critical post by some of you. It becomes an exercise in absurdity.
Sad yes, but I'm still much smarter than you. A consolation prize I suppose. In other words, you have no idea concerning the real situation in China but still felt the need to open your trap. I've always been fond of the "I've traveled the world" line. I've personally done the same, except I don't pretend to know the intricacies of the places I've visited with my 5 minute tours. HA. That is funny. The CCP gets more than their share of shellacking. Open an internet site in China and it's filled with them. Yet somehow in your view, the Chinese consider their government above criticism. Could it actually be that gasp, the CCP is getting more than their fair share? I would dare to say that the United States of America, in its current form, would not last forever. Hey, dynasties and empires rise and fall. Believe it or not, if you don't say what you mean and mean what you say, people are not gonna take you seriously. I'm trying to decide what's more ironic, Chinese people telling Americans they don't understand Chinese people, or Americans telling Chinese people they don't understand themselves.
You've always been an ass here, so no surprise with that post. You have no idea where I've been or how long I was there, but that, of course, doesn't stop you from, yes, being an ass. Hey, you are quite good at it. You should be proud, and I am sure that you are. Someone who would call their own father a moron in front of 38,000+ doesn't need a leason about the "ins and outs" of being an ass on a BBS. Congratulations.
I dont see anyone telling you that you dont know yourself, but I sure as hell see you thinking you know what we are all about based on stereotypes. Seems pretty straightforward....you say "dont judge based on what you see or read in the media" yet you do THE SAME EXACT THING towards us. EYE RON EE bubba.
That doesn't make sense that industrialization occured prior to the Industrial Revolution. How could a country industrialize without industry? Once again Eli Whitney invented the Cotton Gin in the early 19th Century and by the middle of the 19th Century the the Northeast already was known for factory and mills. In fact Lowell, Mass in the 18th Century was already known as mill town. By the 20th Century the US was already one of the great industrial powers. Heck the North won the Civil War because of industrial might and the Civil War was pretty much the death knell of the US being a an agrarian society. Seriously if you are saying the US wasn't industrialized prior to the 20th Century you need to study US history more. Also just to add that in your defense of authoritarianism you have skipped over the fact that the PRC economically didn't take off until they dropped central control of the economy. While the PRC might not be willing to let go of political control Deng recognized that that authoritarianism doesn't work economically. I don't know you or your dad personally but considering you called your dad a 'moron' and cited his experience with the Cultural Revolution and Tiananmen that sounds like some bitterness to me.
Deckard, Thanks for your reply to my post. You didn't get the central point of my post. So, let me repeat it for you one more time here. In my previous post, I suggest that if you are really serious about learning the Chinese culture and thus the Chinese people, it would go a long way to help you if you study those great Chinese Classics. What's the point of studying a country's history if you don't get into what influence their minds and how they think ? Dynasties come and go throughout Chinese history. In my opinion, it's those great teachings and Classics that provide infinite wisdom for China to sustain their continuous civilization for five thousand years. Let me ask you, where are the other three ancient civilizations ? They are in ruins and are making money from tourism. Your tour of Honk Kong doesn't mean anything in learning about the Chinese culture. in fact, it's the worst place to learn anything about the history and the Chinese culture. Let me guess, you spent your time in the dim sum house, and watched couple rounds of Mahjon, and may be picked up a hooker or two, am I right ? There is no inferiority complex as I can see from the Chinese government and from the posters here. I can guarantee you that the CCP does not worry about losing their power since they are doing such a good job improving people lives. Their approval rating is consistently above 90%. These survey are done by American companies in China. These days, only the smartest people and most capable with proven track records are promoted to run the country. Can you say about the same for the U.S. ? One more thing, those who are making counter arguments are not running dogs for the Chinese government. They are making counter arguments because they find your reasoning are weak, and they just picked it apart and shove it up your a$$ and you're whining about it.
I almost forgot that this was the first decade in over 400 years without a European colony in China. Go China.
Corrections. I don't just call you a moron. I prove that you are a moron then call you one. Alternatively I could act like you, or even worse, KingCheetah, take a potshot without actually discussing an issue and then delivering an insult, then of course claim how I am not engaging in some personal attacks. Sorry, the hypocrisy doesn't suit my palate. If your point was that Teamwork made a generalization, I agree. Unfortunately that is closer to the truth the the other allegation. Oh well, bygones. You should read my previous post. The industrialization process already took off prior to Victorian times. The Industrial Revolution (along with globalisation) merely took it to an all new level. There already was unprecedented economic and technological growth prior to that. On the contrary, I'd say the US had limited industrialization prior to the 20th Century. Comparatively though, especially to Europe... Compared to an agrarian system, the limited industrialization the US had was more successful. However, what caused it to take off? Two big wars and the destruction of all competition, exactly as I've mentioned already. Once again, you are having problems separating economic systems from political ideology. China was an authoritarian system with a market economy for the entirety of history prior to 1949. China was an authoritarian system with a centrally planned economy from 1949 to 1978. China is an authoritarian system with a market economy ever since. China always was an authoritarian system. The only thing that changed was going from market economy to centrally planned one and then back. Of course, having someone like Mao in charge was more likely to induce a centrally planned economy, but that doesn't change the fact that the two are entirely separate issues. And once again, I'd hate to be comparing to India (and partially because you are a pro-India pundit), but if you actually made a comparison, from 1949 to 1978, that would be including the disastrous Great Leap Forward, the Cultural Revolution, the Tangshan Earthquake, etc, etc, etc, China grew much faster. Pro-Indian pundits like to say they are only behind because "they opened up later," whatever that means, but the fact is, China already left them in the dust by 1978, prior to Deng's reforms. What happened since then is merely the change from leaving India in the dust to tripling their economy. Because you see, even Mao the economic moron had the good sense for strong infrastructural investments... Moron is a strong word. I take it back. How about we just say his decisions aren't practical?
I propose we construct a new "CHINA ONLY!" forum, in which posting and reading privileges are limited to a certain individual - not only a dissident, but a would-be Charles Foster Kane, the self-proclaimed scion of KMT wealth and nobility - our very own MFW (as well as his buddy MFW123). That way they can hold forth with their received wisdom, and our pathetic moronic eyes aren't able to misinterpret, distort and destroy his sacred truths as revealed to him by the angel of CCP awesomeness.
Like MFW, like KingCheetah. Seriously, both of you are as predictable as tomorrow's sunrise in a thread about China. I don't know who is worse between the two of you.
With rants like that, one wonder why I always say Sammy, that you are high on crap and low on substance.
Activist lawyer doesn't even know the difference between totalitarian and authoritarian state? Does it says something about the cause he's purportedly fighting for (on a basketball fan forum) or his own qualification? Or both?
What is really weak is your attempt to get under my skin. You don't even know my stance in the Taiwan issue. Let me just say I believe in the principle of self-determination to give you a hint. But I am not interested in debating the Taiwan issue here. What's the point when you know people on either side have made up their mind like blind zealots? Anyway, I stand by my opinion that you and MFW are at the same level. It's a tough call to decide which one of you is worse.
It's weird how you think going around the world makes you knowledgeable about their culture. When I travel to different countries, it makes me feel more ignorant more than anything else. Rather it's living in other countries that makes me feel like I begin to understand their culture. The more I talk to people from other countries, and visiting them, the more I feel like I have no right to speak of others. Because there's just so much information that I can't possibly begin to process in the short amount interaction I receive. I guess the sports analogy would be national "experts" talking trash about the Rockets when they just watch ESPN highlight reels and reading boxscores. In a way, Chinese posters here are like Rockets fans, who continue to get mad at national media over and over for their lack of understanding. I guess there is sort of an inferiority complex in both cases. But why is this not understandable? When it happens in GARM all the time? It just seems weird that we'd have such different views on this.
老师 , I had no intention to drag 文化本位 into my post. 文化本位 is for the great minds, and scholars on high octane like you to cogitate. It's out of my league to make any comments on this topic. I am just an average Joe that reads these great Chinese Classics to keep myself out of troubles and live a balanced life. I would take whatever is good for me that makes me a better person; whether it's from the East or the West. ( Heck, if Sammy has something good to say, I would listen too. But I do like his basketball analysis though. ) I once met a business man who employs thousands of people in China has these great books on his desk and said to me : " of all the treasures if he had to choose to keep, he would choose those great books ". Different people get different results from these books and it also depends on how they apply them. I have seen people keep adding zeros to their bank account aren't happy in their lives; yet I have also seen people keep subtracting zeros from their bank account to help people in need, are very happy people. Most people would be very happy to add more zeros to their accounts. But after certain amount, they are just zeros. One of the definition of zero means empty. So, I guess you could say " full is empty, empty is full ", could you ?
