a gay person can have a kid, go **** a woman or a man. batman, are you this dumb. there is no civil right to adopt kids last i checked. people get turned down for adoption for all kinds of reason. but i like the attempt at psychoanalysis. though
There's your answer. You're absolutely right that the kid is not responsible for what you're thinking, so why punish the kid (and why punish your kid by not going)? If you truly believe that gay couples raising kids is wrong, why not go and show the kid what a loving, supportive family with a mommy and daddy look like? Of course, you might recognize that the two guys are also a loving and supportive family... and that might change your thinking somewhat. Have the courage to go and find out. As to your daughter, you can easily deal with this without going into sexuality. Explain that some families are different, but what's important is that whoever has responsibility for a child protects and nourishes them in a loving way, just like you and your wife do for your kid.
your point about interracial couples is idioic because i don't think it was ever illegal for an interracial couple to have kids. just look at the fair skinned black folks walking around. how do you think we got this way.
So are you more comfortable if the kid was raised primarily by one parent? I suspect the attitude against parent's children interacting with gay couple's children is a projection that homosexuality is somehow contagious and its endorsement would plop that uncomfortable situation down on the parent's doorstep.
there is no civil right to adopt, and i bet its harder for a single parent to adopt than a gay couple so i have no idea what point you're trying to make.
pgab: I'm sorry to come off as judgmental. I used to feel the way you do and I didn't harbor any ill will toward gays so I understand. Likewise, my grandmother didn't harbor any ill will toward blacks. She just thought it was unnatural for the races to mix. That is something of an outrageous belief today but it wasn't twenty or thirty years ago. Getting back to natural rights, how do you feel about a man and woman that cannot conceive children of their own adopting? Do they have a natural right to that? Or would it be unnatural? There are many couples that are unable to produce children of their own -- it's not just gays.
see now that's a good point. the purpose of adoption is to increase the value of a kid's life. kid's need parents. like i said in the first post, i understand there a lot of kids that need to be adopted. so given that in general if they are good people then i have no problem with it. but i think the stigma is something that needs to come into consideration.
1) Interracial marriage has NOTHING to do with this situation, Batman, so please do not distract the rest of us with this bait. 2) I too feel that gays should NOT be allowed to adopt and raise a child. I feel this way because I do not believe it provides a child with a good upbringing -- a balanced life, a strong moral code, good role models, and a healthy mother/father figure that provides input on how to prepare one's self for adulthood. So I am thinking about the issue on behalf of the child, not on behalf of the gays. I would not send my child to the home of a gay couple at that age. Later in life, when the child has figured out the differences between right and wrong, I would not have a problem with it.
I raised the issue of interracial couples because you asserted that your issue here was concern for the stigma the children of a gay couple would face. I happen to know that that argument was employed in opposition to mixed races because my grandmother made it to me. I also went to a predominantly black elementary school in which taunts of "oreo" were not rare. I'm not saying there was ever a law against interracial procreation, but I damn well know it was frowned upon. And not so many years ago you would have gotten a very strange response to asserting you as a black man had a "natural" or "civil" right to couple with a white woman. I'm pretty sure blacks were killed on more than one occasion for doing just that. My point in all this is to explain that prejudice exists but (thankfully) fades over time as people grow to accept each other's differences. That has happened with mixed race children and it is happening with the children of gay couples. Thankfully.
That's cool. But I have to ask again then, since I don't feel you've addressed it, do you believe my grandmother was right to worry about the very real stigma that children of interracial marriages experienced?
its a non issue. not to avoid the question. it just has nothing to do with this conversation. if she was sincere, than that's her belief. but there was nothing to stop it from happening so what your grandmother believed really doesn't matter. for example, i worked with a gay guy who is living with another guy who has little girl that is biologically his. there is nothing society can do to take that kid away. adoption is a whole other subject.
Sorry, but you're really dodging the question. You call it a non-issue because you believe it should be one, not because it is. Your whole premise here is that adoption is a choice. So is having a child with a person of another race. Both the child of a mixed marriage and the adopted child of a gay couple face a stigma. In both cases the child's parentage is the result of a choice. In both cases the child faces a stigma or would have faced a stigma in the past. In both cases the stigma was/is wrong. And in both cases that wrong stigma is no reason that the choice to raise the child in a loving household is wrong. And I assert again, in ten years there will be a greater stigma toward WS&C if he continues to disagree with gay adoption than there will be toward the kid he's concerned about. Just as has proven to be the case with the children of mixed marriages, which was my whole point in bringing it up.
It's possible that one of the two could be a biological parent of the child. I guess I misread you in describing the stigma for the kid being raised by gay couples. I'd think the stigma would be the same because the main issues is the gay parents, despite whether the kid was totally adopted or had a 3rd minor parent.
again batman, its not a choice. kids are put into parents homes by society to be taken care of. if a couple has a child its their decision. not even close to being analogous.
Never in the history of US was it illegal for interracial couple to have kids? Are you sure about that?
do you know how many black children are the descendants of slave masters. do you know that thomas jefferson has a whole family descended from him that he started with a slave? whether it was legal or not, there were plenty of interracial kids.
Okay, I really don't think you're listening and I don't think you've addressed what is a very clear and very reasonable analogy at all -- two kids experiencing stigma for different specific reasons but the same general reason (because they are different), both stigmas wrong, both stigmas fading. But I've made my point a few times now. You don't have to agree. No hard feelings.
you can't stop interracial mixing. even if interracial marriages were illegal, there were mixed kids. so it doesn't matter. now if you want to argue is interracial marriage and gay marriage being illegal the same, that's a debate. you don't need to be married to have kids. so its a non issue. the kids are there, you can't stop people from having sex, and therefore kids will be born. you can stop people from adopting.
again, a gay couple can get around having a kid. there is nothing illegal about having kids. not allowing someone to have kids, and not allowing someone to be married are two different subjects. i understand the question, does having kids who will be ridiculed provide enough reason to make interracial marriage illegal. but marriage and adoption are two different issues so it doesn't matter. if an interracial couple wanted to have a kid, they don't need to be married.
I didn't say interracial marriage wasn't a choice, I said that race wasn't a choice. Moral behavior has nothing to do with race. I personally believe that you can't say you love God if you have prejudice or racism going on. That is what the bible says in my opinion. A Christian should be humble enough to over come the cultural racism, I know many Christians are prejudice but I can't excuse that in my understanding of God's love. Everyone is born with a selfish nature. But that doesn't excuse moral accountability. The poster said and I quote "Until then, we would like to continue with keeping her in the dark about sexuality and childbirth (she still believes in Santa Claus). We feel that she's just not ready for that knowledge yet. There is a gay couple who live on our street who adopted a baby boy about 2 years ago. Now, I do not force my beliefs on other adults. I have always treated homosexual people the same as any other person. I don't shun them. I respect their intelligence (if they're intelligent). I don't let their sexual preference control how I treat them. I work with and have have been friends with gay people and not had any problems. I don't tell them how to lead their lives, and they have always paid me the same respect. But I am entitled to my opinion of what is right or wrong, just like any human being." I just wanted to post that he is right, he should make these decisions for his own child and it is certainly a moral decision and he is entitled to his opinion right or wrong. I love people. No need to stigmatize anyone; even if you don't agree with their behavior. I am not for passing anti gay laws or doing any of this anti gay stuff I see in some churches. I don't think it is right for a man to ***************another man. It is morally wrong. Homosexuality is a sexual behavior. I decided how I would approach this subject with each of my 5 children. I have never let my children make gay jokes or disrespect the gay community, we just don't see life that way. However we discussed when they were mature enough the questions they had about sex. I have been preaching for over 25 yrs and I have never preached a sermon on homosexuality. Not one, why would I? I have cared for those with aids and spent many times counselling with gay individuals. I have prayed, hugged, laughed and cried with several. I never have told a gay person that they were a sinner, (unless they point blank put me on the spot you know like "tell me pastor is it a sin to ***** another man, now tell me plain and to the point") I don't remember Jesus going around telling people they were sinners. That is so unloving. I'm a bigger sinner anyways. Thought I would get all that out, before I was asked.
