Behavior and prejudice

What if the child was 4 and they were having trouble finding a home (the huge majority pounce on infants and ignore everything else...that is why it is chic to adopt Chinese now - you can get young girls)? 3? 2? Is it better for a two year old to wait until they possibly find a hetero couple in a week/month/year than a gay one now? Of course I am assuming a gay couple will take the two year old, obviously...just speaking hypothetically to your seemingly arbitrary age.

 

It's not for me to decide what the age should be, I'd leave it to those who understand developmental issues.

 

Does her acceptance of her sexuality now change her ability to be a good parent?

If she wanted to adopt a child would you approve?

 

I don't see the difference in keeping your child from attending a party hosted by a gay couple and their child versus keeping him/her from going to a family of another religion (or atheist if you are religious) or a family of different race. Some want to keep their child's environment more insular, but more often than not I think to hinders a child growing up than helping. Unless there was some clear indication another family’s home wasn’t safe, I’d let my sons go there.

IMO acceptance of gay relationships are where acceptance of interracial relationships were 50 some years ago and analogy is very close (or if you look at anti-Jewish or anti-Catholic sentiment in many places, back then I am not sure hardly any atheists were “out”). Someone brought up adoption, well a good portion of heterosexual couple who adopt do so because they are passed ages where they can procreate, or have fertility issues. What sense does it make to have a couple have a fertility test come out positive before adopting? As for dealing with stigma for the child placed, there are stigmas for all sorts of minority membership (ethnic, class, religion), but I would hope the bigger picture is considered in adoption (basically good evidence for a stable and loving home).

 

She doesn't see it as accepting her sexuality, she had sex with another woman and she liked it and now prefers it. She sees it as being free to choose what pleases her.

I don't think my approval would be sought and so I don't try to give it.

Same goes for anyone else, unless I believe someone sincerely wants my opinion, approval or comments on something that serious I don't give it, I don't think butting in uninvited is profitable.

I don't mind commenting in D&D, but in real life the stakes are much higher.

 

So you decided to punish your daughter by not allowing her to go to a party she would enjoy because you are afraid of her asking questions.

It is your prejudice, no getting around that.

What would happen if you went to a birthday party and the child had their dad and step dad there, wouldn't that be two daddys?

Let me ask you an honest question, what does your wife think about it? Women sometimes seem to be less homophobic than men.

I think you are making a big issue out of it for yourself, and believe your daughter could care less, she just wants to go jump in the bouncy castle and eat cake.

But whatever, she will eventually make her own decisions, and yes, you will have some influence on them, until the day you don't.

DD

 

DD

Would you allow you child to goto the party of a bigamist/satanist/etc?

If it is a party . . .that your kid would enjoy . . .that lifestyle and/or choices
of the parents are irrelevent to you???
Just curious at where your point of parental discretion is . . .

Rocket River

 

I'm saying that you seem to think your daughter might wind up gay if you don't take steps to prevent it and that that is naive at best and dangerous at worst. I really don't want to offend you, but if you think you can impact your daughter's sexuality and if you intend to take steps to do that, I feel sorry for her. You should be concerned for her health and happiness - not trying to guide her toward the sexual preference you would prefer for her.

I'm sure you don't feel like you are prejudiced or bigoted. People rarely do, even when they are. Everyone's always got a great, considered, well meaning reason for disdaining people who are different from themselves. I hope your daughter doesn't wind up gay. If she does, I worry she won't have the love and support of her father. And that is sad.

 

With all due respect (read: NONE), comparing homosexuality to bigamy or devil worship is flat out F*CKED. You should be ashamed of yourself. The good news is at least WS&C isn't considering bringing his kid to a black person's house.

How does that feel, Rocket River?

 

I think that you may have unintentionally read something into pgabriel's post that isn't really there. If so, you have completely misconstrued his point.

This is an issue that is very difficult for a good many people. What I think pgabriel is saying is that gay people have every right to their lifestyle, and deserve treatment no different in everyday life than everybody else. When it comes to having kids, the water becomes murkier. The simple fact is that in a natural setting, gay couples will not have kids. No matter how hard you try, you cannot get a man pregnant. For lesbians, when you have two people, neither of whom produce sperm, they will not have a baby. There is a zero percent chance of it happening. A good many very fine people wrestle with this, because two people of the same gender raising a child is something that does not happen in nature. One has to ask themselves if there is a reason why nature will not allow for this, or if it is just an unfortunate coincidence.

 

Of course not all the choices are ok with me, but a loving gay couple who live in the same neighborhood, and their child will be attending the same classes as my kids, I would have no problem whatsoever.

I get your point about him making his own choice based upon his own beliefs, I just don't agree with them.

And honestly, I think he is seriously over reacting ...and his child would have a great time....at a party with kids.....and perhaps he might learn a thing or two as well.

Uh, nature is allowing it, they are the same sex and they are raising the child together, or are you saying that people that go through invitro fetilization have been selected by nature to not have children too?

Whatever happened to "Love thy neighbor" or "Judge not lest ye be judged"?

DD

PS...Batman, you are fighting the good fight....

 

Refman, I was responding to exactly the point that you made. I didn't miscontrue anything. Many hetero couples are incapable of producing offspring as well. Is it unnatural or wrong if they adopt?

Loving parents are loving parents. And there aren't enough of them. We can't afford, as a society, to let bigotry against gay people to narrow the pool.

I'm so sorry that people get upset when disapproval of homosexuality is called bigotry. I'm so sorry it offends people who feel they should have a right to ostracize a class of people free from criticism. But it is bigotry, even if it is currently a relatively acceptable form of it. It will not be for long. Young people are way farther along in accepting that particular difference. We're about five minutes away, as a society, from treating homophobes as we treat racists. And that is great freaking news.

 

Thanks, DD. You are too.

 

They simply are not the same thing. If there is a child conceived naturally by persons of different races, that child is theirs by law. No other body need rule upon it and parental rights attach at birth.

Adoption is a totally different story. A judge must decide whether the couple involved would be good parents and whether the adoption is in "the best interests of the child." Adoptions by hetero couples of good financial standing with no criminal history are not always a slam dunk. The state has to sign off on it (through a judicial official), and there is always a risk involved. NOBODY has the right to adopt a child.

The elephant in the corner of the room that nobody wants to talk about is that when a gay couple adopts, the child, at a tender age, knows that their family situation is vastly different from their classmates. Sexuality is a pressing question in such a household, moreso than in homes that are heterosexual, simply because when your family is different, you want to know why. There are a good many people that think if possible, it is best to keep a child out of such a situation.

I don't know what the right answer is. I, like many, wrestle internally with this issue.

 

Refman, I'll respond more when you catch up with the rest of the thread. But I'll say briefly now that you are proving my point by saying that any adoption by a hetero couple is a slam dunk. Yes, it is today. Thirty or fourty years ago it wasn't. Then there were serious concerns about interracial couples adopting for the same reasons you raise about gay adoption -- that the child's happiness would be compromised by his home life being different than the norm. The fact that that seems ridiculous now is heartening. In ten or twenty years the struggle you experience over gays adopting - however well intentioned - will seem exactly as outdated as the one people once felt over interracial adoption.

 

Sorry for the multiple posts...I got to this thread WAY late.

Now...let's just wait a second...so pgabriel disagrees with you on whether gays should adopt children and this, and this alone, causes you to label him as a bigot.

This is just strange.

 

Adoption and in vitro have one thing in common...THEY ARE NOT NATURE. They are the intervention of man.

Frankly...duh.

 

I didn't blatantly label pgabriel a bigot. You quoted me talking about Jorge, not pgabriel. I do think Jorge is a bigot and I think he proves it every chance he gets. But pgabriel is not Jorge. I think pgabriel is a well meaning, good guy who hasn't known enough gay people to understand how hurtful and ill-informed his bias against them really is.

 

In other words, it would be fair to toss out the argument that gays having kids is unnatural in considering the question of gay adoption since, in your own words above, adoption is in itself 'unnatural.'