On this trading of Brand and drafting Martin or Swift thing. I dont think the Bulls would be able to get a good enough young center in exchange for Brand to make this move. If they got Mutombo it would not really help them re-build as he is approaching his mid 30s. There just arent many good centers in the NBA and despite the slamming he gets by some fans, Chris Mihm is pretty solid. Will he be a superstar? Probably not. However, I think he is going to be just a notch below the elite big men O'Neal and Mourning. Anyone who watches him extensively can tell you that he is a better player than Vlade Divac or Raef LaFrentz. He has the offensive polish of Divac but plays better defense and rebounds better. Also, he added about 4 inches to his vertical leap last offseason which made him into a good shot blocker. For a player of his size (7-0 262) he is agile and runs the court reasonably well. Jerry Krause has scouted him very closely this season, he's been at Erwin Center a good bit and followed him on some road games. Krause was at that game where Texas played at UConn where Mihm drew about 20 scouts. People try to knock Mihm b/c he doesnt show enough fire and seems to fade in games. Just b/c a player doesnt jump up and down and thump his chest does not make him a bad player. I would much rather have a player that plays hard and quietly goes about his work than one that draws 1000000000 technical fouls. Also, centers rarely dominate college basketball b/c of the zone defenses. This is more extreme in Texas's case b/c the guard play last season was a joke. The college game becomes a guard's game b/c the zones just clamp down on the interior players. The polish in Mihm's game impresses which is a big part of the reason I dont think he will be a bust; he has a good hook shot, a nice turn around jumper, the ability to step out to 18 feet, excellent footwork along with good rebounding and defense. Also he is agile and moves around the court well. I think the Bulls would rather have Mihm-Brand than Martin and an average at best center. There is no young center that is any better than average that the Bulls can get for Brand. I think they'll do quite well with two rock solid frontcourt players in Mihm and Brand. Also, they have the 6th overall pick which as long as it doesnt jump into the top 3 they get to keep. With that pick they look to be very interested in Darius Miles. Add either Eddie Jones or Tracy McGrady to that and they are much improved. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
MManal, the trade doesn't have to happen this year. Tell me what kind of trade down you'd accept for Martin then. Martin could easily be a superior player to Brand. We just don't know. I'd play them both and wait it out looking for a center. Bulls won't be good any time soon. They can never go wrong picking the best player two years in a row. I would never trade down the #1 in a rebuilding situation just to fill needs, unless you think LA would give you the #3 (let's say) and Odom. Even if they did that...I'd offer them Brand for Odom and Mihm (rather than Martin). MManal, I am talking drafting personalities between you and me. You seem to place too much stock in needs over keeping the #1 pick. Brand or no Brand. I would never pass the #1 when it is Martin--a possible best player in 3 drafts (99, 00, 01). I think you all are saying that to convince yourself that the Bulls really will pass on him.
I think one problem is that some people are overstating Martin. Best player in three drafts '99, '00, '01 is a bit of an overstatement. Im still not convinced he's the best player in this draft let alone three drafts. I personally feel that Stromile Swift is the one to have in this one. The problem is that good centers are nearly impossible to find as there just are not many quality 7 footers. A player with Mihm's skill, size, agility etc. is just so tough to find and impossible to trade for. Mihm is looking like he will be about a 17-10 big man. A center with those numbers in his early 20s is impossible to trade for. According to reports, the Bulls like Mihm and Mihm likes the Bulls. To clarify one point. I do agree that Martin is better than Brand, Swift is also. However, the difference is not large enough to pass on a skilled 7 footer and hope to land some young center that doesnt exist. If the Bulls didnt have Brand and had Odom or Francis instead then I'd be all for them taking Martin or Swift. However, when you try to trade players like Brand you just dont get equal value. Whenever star level players are traded, you just dont get equal value in return. Also, I dont think the Bulls are as far off as everyone thinks. Imagine this, they draft Mihm, Miles and sign Jones or McGrady. They eventually field a starting lineup that includes, Mihm, Brand, Miles, Jones or McGrady and some filler PG. They have Artest, Benjamin, Maloney, etc off the bench. In the weak Eastern Conference, I think in the next 2 yrs they'd be able to crack the 8th seed. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
One question I have on the Martin thing is this: is he a PF or a SF? If he is a SF, I don't see a real reason for the Bulls to pass on him if they believe him to be the best player in the draft. With them still running the triple post, the lack of a great center or point guard has less of an impact on them. With solid starters at PF (Brand), SF (Martin) and SG (McGrady or Jones), they would seem to have a very solid rotation. All they would need is a serviceable point guard (Randy Brown seems like he could run the point well enough) and center and they would be as good as most middle of the pack teams. If they are then able to acquire a couple more solid prospects, they could be a playoff team in a couple of years. I guess my point is that many people regard Martin as a star-calliber player. Stars are hard to come by. Mihm probably won't ever fit that monniker even if he does become a solid second-tier center. If Martin is a SF and as good as advertised, I see no reason why the Bulls would want to pass on him. Now, if they believe Mihm is a better fit, that is a different story. ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
Jeff, thats a very good point. This is part of the reason I am not ready to put Martin into superstar status. If you look at his body, it is more like the body of a 3 man than a 4 man. However, his game indicates that he will play PF in the NBA. He improved his offensive game this offseason but it is nowhere near that of a prototype NBA SF. The best NBA comparison I have heard of Martin is a Bo Outlaw with more offensive ability. Their body frames look almost identical. Both are undersized for the PF position but play with incredible heart and determination. Each of them have the quickness to guard NBA SFs but dont have the offensive game to be a star SF. I think Martin will end up playing the PF spot and become very good but will not cross into the elite superstar status of Chris Webber, Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett. I think Brand will end up being just a notch below Martin but in that same tier just below Duncan, Webber, Garnett, etc. This is part of the reason I like Swift so much. He can do a lot of the same things Martin does but has about two inches on him in height. That 6-9 height that Cincinnati lists Martin at is just not true. The Bearcats for some strange reason tend to overstate player heights; they listed Mickeal at 6-7, and he ended up measuring at 6-4 3/4. Those 2 inches are MAJOR in NBA standards. That is an entire position change. I understand that some fans get annoyed with all this height talk. However, when you are projecting players into superstar status it is just so rare that they are undersized. Undersized players can be very good but superstar status is nearly non-existent for them. The last undersized PF that reached that status was Charles Barkley and that is a major exception not the rule. The reason for his success was that he had incredible ball handling ability and absolutely excellent face up moves. Plus he could board against taller players. I like Martin, but I dont see him being at the level of Webber, Duncan or Garnett. Stromile Swift I feel has that chance. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
To my esteemed colleague, NIKEstrad, agreed. So, I presume you agree that taking Mihm before Martin or Swift is just silly. Rather than taking Martin or Swift then dangling them or Brand as trade bait for Mutombo or something now or later. It is not like the Bulls are going to be good for awhile, they might as well take the best talent (by FAR in this draft), give him playing take side-by-side with Brand and trade one of them, later. Mihm ahead of Martin/Swift...bwahahahaha
Ok, here's a little more info on the question of when you can start trading draft picks. According to the Arizona Republic, you can't trade picks prior to the draft: The Suns cannot trade the pick before the draft. However, they could pick a player, then trade his rights. http://azcentral.com/sports/suns/0518suns.shtml That seems to be in line with what happened last year. That's why we heard about all of the draft day deals, but they didn't actually happen until August 1st. To me, it looks like the trading deadline is the 16th Thursday of the season and deals aren't allowed again until Aug. 1. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited May 18, 2000).]
