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Beating Phoenix Style Defense (Let's come up with some ideas)

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by don grahamleone, Mar 17, 2007.

  1. don grahamleone

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    Okay,
    There have been tons of good ideas so far and I think everyone is on the right track. (not that I really know, but it all seems logical... except for the Novak idea)

    Anyway....
    The Suns know what they are doing on defense that is working. They also know that if the Rockets do 'X', it will break down the defense. What is the last thing in the world the opponent wants the Rockets to do when they double Yao early? What makes the early-double-on-Yao Defense break down? What is 'X'?

    It might be a two step ordeal, or more, or less. What do you think?
    X=?

    I have a yellow note pad that I'm taking notes on. It's titled: Beat the Suns Defense

    The whole page is filled accept for one line, so there are plenty of original ideas. I'll summarize and organize them soon. There seem to be some categories forming already and combinations of those categories are probably close to being the right answer.
     
  2. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Here's a thought. They usually will want to double with Chuck's guy, because they don't think he's much of a threat. If that happens, maybe Chuck should come out and set a screen for T-Mac. That will leave one defender having to guard the screen and roll. They'll either have to bring help from another three point shooter (open three) or T-Mac has an open lane to the basket off of Chuck's screen.
     
  3. v3.0

    v3.0 Member

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    To the idea of guarding nash one one and letting him have 50...gee I wonder if he'll pass or call for pick and rolls or screens, given he is the top assist guy and premier playmaker in the league...yeah, Nash will just ignore the system, stop what made him a 2 time MVP and try to take his man one on one just because only one man is guarding him :rolleyes:

    Gee Dr. Jack Ramsey clone, you really thought that through :D

    I was too lazy to quote but we all know who made that superior analytical bball observation :rolleyes:
     
  4. don grahamleone

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    Can you remember a time when a team failed after making Nash shoot more and pass less? If so, did they play that way the whole game or give up on that early? Did making Nash shoot tire him at all? Basically, what happened when Phoenix' opponents that have tried to make Nash beat them by shooting?

    (I'm really more concerned about the doubling-Yao part, but defending Nash is pretty interesting too)
     
  5. WeBelieve

    WeBelieve Member

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  6. cavevato

    cavevato Member

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    To me it seems very simple. Get to the free throw line!!! It probably sounds easier said than done but to me that is the key. When you go to the free throw line it stops the time and slows the game down so it has to be dextrimental to the Suns. It favors the ROX. We need tmac to attack the rim and Yao definetly needs to attack the rim. And we need the refs to cooperate.
     
  7. thetennisyao

    thetennisyao Member

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    the best possible solution is let yao go to work.
     
  8. metalshred

    metalshred Member

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    I'm not a pro at analyzing games or setting up plans to play against a particular team. So i'll just give u guys and the Rockets my best wishes. :)
     
  9. rhino17

    rhino17 Member

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    The idea of JLIII guarding nash sounds horrible. I dont trust him to do anything
     
  10. Ifartedpoop

    Ifartedpoop Member

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    Guy's Guy's, don't you see what Mr. Gundy is doing here? He is limiting his options for the regular season until the post starts. So many options and so many strategies to beat the suns. What i would do is have yao come of the bench and start hayes or mutombo. Let them run all they want and until yao comes of the bench.We start playing our style of half court game, and see what happens.
     
  11. metalshred

    metalshred Member

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    So u want the rockets to trail by at least 30 points before Yao comes off the bench, very nice idea indeed, even I know you r nuts.
     
  12. bmo

    bmo Member

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    The key is to get Yao the ball. I seem to remember Jon Barry mentioning on his last interview with John and Lance that one way to get Yao the ball when he is being fronted was to just take shots and let him dominate the offensive glass. Which he should be in a position to do, considering his man is in front of him. Barry said they used that game plan against Phoenix once and Yao got 9 offensive boards. The Rockets went on to win by like 20. So if Jon Barry says it, it has to be true.
     
  13. don grahamleone

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    Here's the summary of the ideas so far:

    Slow it Down:
    -Pistons beat the Suns by slowing the game down and won.
    -Testing the 3pt shooting PF might get you behind the Suns because their 3pt shooting PF is better than yours (Shawn Marion)
    -The Nuggets beat the Suns by slowing down Nash and cutting off what he likes to do best, pass the rock.
    -Slow down penetration and make them shoot mid-range jumpers. The 18 to 20 footer is the worst shot in basketball. Make them do that as often as possible.
    -Do not hurry to shoot on offense. Unless you are up, there isn't any reason to force up 3's. Phoenix will eventually break down if you have patients.
    -Foul Phoenix before they get a shot up. If they look like they are trying to do something, foul them before they can get into it. That way, fouls are limited to non-FT fouls until the Rockets surpass 5 in each quarter.
    -Make Nash shoot. He's short, so, have a hand in his face when he shoots and no need to help on defense. If our 2 thru 5 helps defend Nash, it leads to easy baskets.
    -Guard Nash as soon as the Rockets shoot and don't worry about the offensive rebound. That way, you deny Nash the quick transition buckets.
    -Don't set picks when there are 3 players in one area. Take the time to get good spacing.
    -Tmac may be able to bother Nash.
    -Take what they give us. Seek opportunity and don't force your style on offense. You may not be seeing the truly easy play if you think you have to get Yao or Tmac the ball.

    High Post:
    -Yao flashes to the high post when doubled early. That will either stretch the defense, allow Yao to get the ball one on one or leave an open shot for someone. (i.e. Yao can shoot from 18 feet so he is open if he's one on one or the double will leave someone open underneath... most likely Hayes)
    -When the double Yao and Chuck isn't making shots, then Chuck should set a screen for Tmac. Tmac one on one with space underneath the basket can be dangerous.
    -If the double is coming, Yao can go high post and let Hayes play low. If Hayes is deep enough, he can finish effectively.

    Don't Panick:
    -The Rockets seem to panick when they get down by about 10. They mistake quick play with urgency. Urgency is about focus, not quick decisions. Quick play shouldn't occur unless down by a bunch with 0 to 2 minutes left in the game.

    Personally, I'm a fan of pulling Yao out of the paint when they double. Doubling a big man out to 15/18 feet can be dangerous. Especially because Yao is a good passer. I also like DD's idea of the Chuck Hayes screen for Tmac. I never thought of it like that.

    Overall, it seems like the Rockets will have to do several of these things to beat that style of defense. It also seems like we should always seek to slow the game down. We have one of the best rebounding teams and best FG% defenses. That's our strength and it seems like we need to force them to deal with it. All of your ideas seem to point one direction. We need to force Phoenix to deal with our style, though the way we force them is a bit unorthodox because they match up against us so well.

    X=?
     
  14. ritou

    ritou Member

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    Actually I am fine with current strategy to have Yao to post and attract two or more people and pass out. The problem is that our offense is too static. Even a fan can predict our offense with 90% accuracy. That is a problem. We should have other 2 or 3 ways to score. In that case, Sun players cannot form their defense and Yao can get the ball in the post more easily. You know what will happen if Yao is single-covered in the post.
     
  15. deshen

    deshen Member

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    changing coach will do it.
     
  16. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    A lot of great suggestions here. On offense it if we can shoot outside shots, rebound and take care of the ball that would go a long way. The zone that Phoenix plays is designed to deny Yao the ball or easy shots deep in the paint. Zones are defeated by great outside shooting and ball movement. The Rox can't run against the Suns but they could shoot from outside better. If Yao and other post players too can grab more rebounds that will get them interior scoring options and more importantly deny the Suns the opportunity to run and get into their offense.

    Since the Suns are so heavy on O transitional D along with greater speed on D seems to be the key to beat them. Again taking care of the ball to limit their touches would slow them down.
     
  17. anitasri

    anitasri Member

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    Suns strength is their offense and high FG percent. On defense they get way too many offensive rebounds and lay ups.

    We will not be able to outshoot the suns- so no point going that way.

    As many have pointed out- it is their defense in the paint that is weak- and we need to hustle back on defense- so we need guys with Stamina who can play- Kirk Snyder,JL3 are options to look at.

    I would definitley want some sets where Yao does shoot from the Free throw line- this opens up the lanes for others to penetrate. Say 5 times in a game.

    We just have to improve our perimeter defense and should not Barbosa and Nash go unchallenged to the basket- easier said than done.

    I really dont know if Tmac on Marion is the way to go on defense.

    Note to Rafer- our tempo is half-court, dont try to change that unless you are going to make the layup and only if we have the numbers. The big guy cannot keep up with 40 minutes of running- and for heavens sake give him the ball early- no more defensive technicals because Yao is kept waiting in the paint for the ball.
     
  18. bladeage

    bladeage Member

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    Banana peels....nuff said.
     
  19. rofflesaurus

    rofflesaurus Member

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    first off we have no ways of stopping barbosa that guy is too fast and too good secondly our perimeter defense isnt great either the suns always get open looks all the time we need a faster PG rafer and head cant cut it
     
  20. don grahamleone

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    First off, we have no ways of stopping Barbosa. That guy is too fast and too good. Secondly, our perimeter defense isn't great either. The Suns always get open looks, all the time. We need a faster PG; Rafer and Head can't cut it.


    Jebus, man. It doesn't take that long to punctuate and capitalize. Secondly, are you saying we have absolutely no chance of beating the Suns? If you are, that's ridiculous. Anyone can beat anyone in this league. The year that the Bulls went 70-12, I think they lost 2 games to the worst team in the league.
     

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