Tmac did change his game a little bit, he couldn't just drive whenever he wanted to without Yao's defender right by the basket ready to help. They also got off to a bad start...6-13 or something. Tmac and Yao had to adjust to each other. It took them a little while. What I meant though was that he was almost solely responsible for creating shots and still scoring 25 ppg. He had many of the same responsibilites, but to a lesser extent with an all star center for a teammate. He was allowed to play off the ball some more and shoot spot up 3's with Yao down low. I didn't say he couldnt change his game, but mentally that must've been kinda hard after having a lot of individual success and some regular season team success with the Rockets. Trying to play a lot more off the ball in RA's system must have been a little bit of a tough transition.
i'm a basketball fanatic, with LP so i tried to catch as many games as possible. joe johnson is one of my favorite players b/c he's an all-around player. so i'm not hatin' on the guy. and his role on the hawks is very similar to what tracy was with us. mike bibby is basically a jumpshooter, despite getting his 4-5 dimes. so joe is their leading scorer and playmaker. he does a lot for that team.
it's a disappointing era, all rocket fans knew that. VERY disappointing. after that 04-05 season, i'm sure every rocket fan had high hopes of us at least winning one 'chip, with tracy being a top 3 player and yao developing right in front of our eyes. again, i'm not trying to make excuses, but injuries really derailed us. yea, injuries happen to every team, but for some freakin' reason, it always happened to our top 2 players. that's where i'm disappointed with. so all we can do now is go with "what ifs..." i truly think if yao and tracy played one full season TOGETHER, we would have gotten a top 3 seed at least and would have gone to the finals once. it NEVER happened after the 04-05 season. so yea, you can write the tracy era as a failure. at the end of the day, it's all about winning and losing. we lost every series with tracy here. it was unfortunate b/c tracy did do his part. but again as the best player, he could always do more.
You're right, son. Tracy McGrady did have a tough time initially, playing with different responsibilities offensively under Rick Adelman than he's had since he left Toronto. I think anybody who's needed to take a potshot at McGrady for his...less-than-favorable...choices of words has pointed that much out. But at the end of the day, it's a transition McGrady has to make, whether he's here, or he goes to another team that has championship contention potential. What McGrady has to do is trust teammates to handle the responsibilities he's had to offensively, which were primarily ball-handling and decision-making. The challenge, as it always is in a team sport, is to get teammates to trust one another to handle their responsibilities on both ends of the court. And the first step in tackling that challenge is to ask as much from the last player on the bench as you do from your starters. That isn't enough, for McGrady to have difficulty making that adjustment. Because what's FINALLY happened is, there are some people who can play shooting guard and point guard at least capably enough to where you can ask McGrady to be more of a traditional small forward like Scottie Pippen in his hey-day. As one option. That's why you make sure you improve the guys around your best players as much as you can. The adjustments McGrady would have to make would be a lot like the adjustments Yao made against Portland in the playoffs. Yao still had to play defense and rebound, which he did very well. McGrady can do a lot of different things for a team. That's why you don't pigeon-hole him into a static role on your team. And whatever you do with McGrady, make sure that's it's with the express purpose of making him a scorer. Not a point guard. Not a decision-maker. Not a facilitator. Whatever reputation or accomplishments McGrady has in the league have come from his ability to score. So that's what you have him do. And you diversify the ways in which that happens. And when the defense tries to take it away, you're ready to counter it with solid teammates. Or at least, that's what you would do if you still wanted McGrady around...
again, it was unfortunate last year that tracy handled his injury situation unprofessionally. if you watched tracy throughout his time in houston, he's truly a team player and would really relinquish his responsibilities if it made the team better. 1) the first 20 games of his houston career, he deferred A LOT to a yao ming who was not clearly as good as him. and nobody asked him to do so. it took JVG to tell tmac to shoot more 2) in 05-06, he came back EARLY from his back injury TWICE, only to reinjure it and sat out the entire year 3) 07-08, he saw his team played well without him and came back and really fit in, as illustrated by the 22 game winning streak. and he played in the playoffs on 2 injuries that required surgery. i'm sure if you looked back, tracy did sacrificed a lot, and did "play hurt." last year, for some reason, he really didn't do that. the frustration of his injury really took over and he really acted unprofessionally and wrongly for the most part. that basically is the tracy most remember on here, and that's unfortunate. but it is what it is.
I think thats what RA tried to do with Tmac...he saw how hard Tmac had to work for the ROckets to score, with the exception of going in to Yao, but Yao would get fronted/doubled quite often, so that wasn't always an option. RA said he wanted Tmac to finish plays rather than start them. He did that at the start of the 08 season, but then he had the elbow injury, then he got the knee injury, and then the left shoulder. Those injuries affected his shooting a lot...but when he was healthy, he was shooting better under Adelman...got of the the best start of his career in 08, before injuring his sshooting elbow in the first couple of weeks of the season. Plus, when Yao went out for good, RA knew he couldn't use Deke and Battier in his normal offense, so he kinda had to revert to TMac penetrate and either dish or finish. Our defense was the key once Yao went out, moreso than our offense.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Bf2umWtQXZ4&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Bf2umWtQXZ4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Good example? Only 4 assists.
I think this is a spot on post. It is very fair. It isn't a knee jerk reaction against Tmac, nor does it let him off the hook for how he handled his injury this past season.
Ya, I would say this is a pretty good example...he wasn't asked to create a lot...he was able to finish plays and everybody knows he's capable of scoring in high #'s when he's on.
...and, for the record.... ...the only problem I could have with McGrady being your primary ball-handler and decision-maker, is that the guys he's giving open shots and layups to didn't convert them at a high enough rate for that approach to work four times in seven tries. What a lot of people tend to miss with the Rockets that past few seasons, especially under Jeff Van Gundy, was that their entire style of play and approach was designed to manage the game and keep it within reach for either Yao or McGrady to score. The Rockets were excellent defensively, and understood that they could very rarely afford to get into high-volume possession games, like Phoenix or Dallas (or even San Antonio could), because they just didn't have the personnel to sustain it. The Rockets were able to win their fair share of regular season games because they were disciplined and stuck to what worked for them. But against playoff competition (particularly an opponent like Utah, who could afford to play Yao or McGrady without alot of double-teaming), where you have to be able to adjust to what teams are trying to do to stop you, the Rockets never were able to rise to that challenge. Maybe McGrady being a more "efficient" player would have helped. Maybe. But you're in the same predicament. People act as if McGrady being better would have meant that Utah wouldn't have continued to send a wave of defenders at him. Or that Rafer Alston would have shot better than 30%. Or that Shane Battier would have shot at all. Or Luther Head.... Okay. That's enough right there. Listen. For me, the task is simple enough. You get good players. Guards need to be able to handle the basketball, make good decisions with it, and shoot a decent percentage (Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell, Clyde Drexler, Vernon Maxwell). Forwards need to be active and versatile. Ideally, they're the players most responsible for transition from offense to defense, and defense to offense. They don't have to excel at anything, but they need to be good at a lot of things (Robert Horry, Mario Elie). Big guys need to be able to finish at the basket at a high rate. Rebound and defend the basket. A decent shot out to about 15' is always nice too (Hakeem Olajuwon, Otis Thorpe). You also need your fair share of good luck and health, not to mention nerves and confidence, but you start with the talent. The Rockets haven't had enough to beat anybody in the playoffs before this season. So they weren't going to win a title. I don't rate a win in the first round. I don't rate a win in the second round. Neither did Lebron James, apparently. If you're good enough to win, then you've got to do it in four rounds of the postseason. And if you're not good enough to win the game playing it on your terms, than you're not good enough to complain about who's fault it is, either. Talent. Responsibility. Trust. Luck. That formula works more often than people think...
Couldn't have said it myself...there are A LOT of factors that go into winning and you just named them all.
You know, tinman... ...I remember Magic saying that, too. Magic's said several times since that, he felt that there was something wrong with the whole Yao/McGrady dynamic...that they could never seem to play well with one another... ...I remember more than a few times where Magic laid the blame for that at McGrady's feet. As a point guard with a great big man himself, Magic felt that the onus for deferment was on McGrady. Whenever Yao and McGrady were on the floor together, McGrady's job was to make sure that Yao got the ball. Magic said during the same postseason that McGrady didn't show enough will to win against Utah in "06...and by the end of that game seven, he was saying that there wasn't much more McGrady could have done to win the game, tinman. He even went as far as to question why Chuck Hayes and Shane Battier were starting at the time and playing heavy minutes if they couldn't put any points on the board... Personally, I grew up watching the old Lakers/Celtics rivalry in the '80s. And I have nothing but the utmost respect for Magic Johnson. He's probably the best basketball player in league history, Michael Jordan or no Michael Jordan. And I have nothing but praise for his perspective. But like a lot of media guys, tinman, Magic doesn't see enough of the whole picture from team to team to be objective enough in a lot of his analyses. He's a lot better than most anchors on ESPN with his analyses, but he doesn't see the Rockets regularly enough to take anything he says with anything more than a grain of salt. But what I will say, is that Magic understands what a player is and is capable of at this level. I'm actually a little surprised he isn't a GM somewhere. But the factor in his gauging of Yao and McGrady is his assumption that McGrady is a point guard. McGrady can certainly pass like one. He's played in that role for the Rockets, tinman, a lot more than he should have. I just think that there wasn't anybody here (Rafer Alston included) who could function at the point well enough for McGrady or Yao to benefit. You usually don't want your best scoring options to be decision makers. You want them playing on instinct. And that instinct should be to put the ball in the basket. Nobody's been a good enough player at the point guard for the Rockets since Bob Sura played here. But even still, neither Yao or McGrady have been quite as dominant individually as may have been expected. Again, because both of them had to decide what was the best play for the team. A team that couldn't score. And everybody knew it. And everybody took advantage of it. Who knows? Maybe it could have worked out....
exactly, that 05-06 season had injuries to BOTH yao and mcgrady. that's basically the story: injuries. after that year, tracy never was a top 3 player anymore. and yao never finished an entire year + playoffs. injuries man, it sucks.
I am tired of reading this awful thread title every time I get on CF. "Be patient with until Mcgrady returns" BY GOD THAT HURTS TO READ! JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!
At that time, that was the thing people were trying to do...pair a dynamic wing player with a dominant post player, since the Lakers had a 3 peat with that formula. However, the Rockets assumed that would be enough...they forgot to adresss the other needs. Tmac was a very skilled 25 year old player, who was in a losing situation basically in Orlando. He was still a great athlete in 2005. He had all the physical tools to be the Kobe Bryant for us. His skills weren't quite as good though, but they were close. Yao was only in his 3rd season, and had improved every year with his stamina, strength, physicality, and post moves. His problem was consistency. Shaq really was unstoppable as a Laker...only he could hold himself back. Yao was never going to dominate that way, because he's too big, and nowhere near the athlete Shaq was. Yao was going to be a very good player, but never dominant like Shaq, and not even close to Dream's versatility like so many in Houston wrongfully assumed (not you Tinman) since he was a #1 pick. So considering their "Kobe" wasn't as skilled in shooting/driving as Kobe Bryant himself, and their "Shaq" wasn't nowhere close to prime Shaq, and more than likely never would be...why did the team end up having much worse talent surrounding them than the Lakers teams who had Shaq and Kobe? People tend to assume that Shaq and Kobe's 60 ppg was what won them titles...that was a big part of it However, their supporting cast was great through the years: Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Rick Fox, Devean George, Glen Rice (1 year), Ron Harper (1 year), Lindsey Hunter (1 year), Horace Grant (1 year), AC Green (1 year), and Brian Shaw (1 year) Shaq and Kobe were so talented...they just needed pieces around them with winning experience and players that were very good at what they do. All of these guys could either shoot, handle the ball, play defense, rebound, or do most of everything I listed. Plus most of these guys seasoned veterans who knew how to win (except Fisher and Fox...they learned with Shaq and Kobe how to win). So with that being said, the Rockets start off with guys like Bobby Sura, Jim Jackson, Maurice Taylor, Bostjan Nochbar, Ryan Bowen, Charlie Ward, Rod Strickland, Scott Padgett, and Andre Barrett. (They got Howard and Lue with Tmac in the trade) Now, NONE of these guys knew how to win... Sura was on the horrible Cavs/Hawks teams before Houston; solid defender Jim Jackson has been on 11 teams in 10 seasons...doesn't know how to win. Maurice Taylor was on a HORRIBLE Clippers team and bad Rockets teams. Boki was an okay player, but very young and still adjusting to the NBA. Ryan Bowen was on the Nuggets in their HORRIBLE seasons; Hard worker Charlie Ward knew how to win, but he was OLD. Strickland was OLD as well. Padgett was in Utah in their bad seasons; good shooter though. Barrett was a D-League player who we brought in. Even Juwan Howard was on many losing situations (not his fault). But what made the Rockets think that 2 YOUNG all star players could lead a team of players who don't know how to win...to win a title? The all stars themselves had losing or bottom seeded playoff berths before this year...they haven't learned how to win yet! However, CD and JVG thought this would magically work out somehow, cuz Shaq and Kobe did it with old role players...except those role players knew how to win and were very good at what they did. The Rockets get out to a 6-13 start, and they realize that Tmac and Yao needed to adjust to each other and they knew that they needed players who were experienced but could still contribute in a positive way. We trade away Jim Jackson, Mo Taylor, Boki, and we gain Mutombo (experience and leadership), Jon Barry (experience & shooting), David Wesley (experience & shooting), Weatherspoon (experience & rebounding) and Mike James (won a title with Detroit in 04). Ward also retires, Strickland and Barrett are waived as well. Those were decent moves, since we addressed perimeter shooting, rebounding, and experience. but that didn't solve everything. We were still lacking length and athleticism outside of Tmac at the wings (Barry, Wesley, Bowen, Padgett). However, the overall talent wasn't very good to be serious contenders. Yao was only playing 33 mpg back then, Mike James could score, but didn't know the meaning of the word pass, Weatherspoon, Mutombo, and Bowen were offensive liabilities, Sura was a better defensive point guard than a true point guard. We improved mentally, but not physically...we needed both for a young core. Fast forward to 2007...Yao is much improved and Tmac, a little less athletic, but has become a better playmaker. Still, Yao is nowhere near as dominant as prime Shaq, and Tmac regressed slightly compared to his 2005 season, due to injuries. CD and JVG feel that we are a couple of pieces away, so we trade for Shane Battier (defense & leadership), we already traded for Rafer (true point, but hasn't won much; TERRIBLE shooter). we already drafted Luther Head (1-dimensional, undersized 2-guard) They sign Chuck Hayes (great defense;NO OFFENSE) They also signed Kirk Snyder (athletic but doesn't know how to play, Jon Lucas III (D-League), and Bonzi Wells (rarely played) But thats it...we basically have an improved Yao, a slightly lesser Tmac, Juwan Howard, Deke, Rafer, Battier, and Head. Thats basically asking Shaq and Kobe to win with Mark Madsen as their 4, Rick Fox at 3, and Lindsey Hunter at the 1...I don't think the Lakers would've won with that starting lineup to be honest. Rockets start 3 offensively challenged players in with Yao and Tmac. Howard and Head can shoot off the bench, but Deke is another offensively challenged player. However, our defense is great. Basically, JVG told them to play hard defense(85 ppg) and Yao and Tracy should score and help others score enough (88 to 92 points) to be able to win. Thats a REALLY TINY margin of error. As you can see, JVG and CD had a lot to do with the Rockets failures...they did not know how to build a team the right way. You need the right mix of vets (Deke), experienced talent (Scola, Artest) and maybe even young talent/atheticism (Brooks, Landry) with a young core foundation such as Tmac and Yao in 2005. We brought in players that didn't know how to win, and that affected us big time...after we changed coaches, philosophy, and GM, Yao and TMac became injury prone to make it work. Shaq and Kobe were allowed to grow together, then were given experienced, winning teammates, and became dominant. I guess the Rockets felt that they should let Yao and Tmac grow together, but turns out that they were too injury prone...we should've had more of a "Win-now" attitude...but if we did, then it was just horrible management to blame. Just my opinion about the talent level through the years in Houston.
This post describes pretty much the 4-5 years of Yao-Tmac era in a nutshell. The only thing though I never really thought CD and JVG thought the Rox team they managed and coached were elite tier teams. Im really sure CD knew we had subpar talent around Tmac and Yao. The whole league knew that. The Mavericks and the Utah freakin Jazz knew that and capitalized on it. People here in CF have this attitude and thinking that a GM is godly. That is not the case. A GM works on the best of his ability. Now Im not saying CD was a very good good gm but what else can he do. Sometimes availability of above average role players can be slim. Hell look at the Cavs management. They offered a deal to jamario moon. I mean what would moon do? That guy wont contribute anything but he is cheap and offer some complementary athleticism for Bron. The point is maybe CD got what he could. Maybe he made mistakes in past payroll contracts so flexibility is minimal. Maybe they were not that many available free agents. I do not know. All I know is CD kept improving the team every season. He knew deep down we have a low probability on winning the chip. We were considered dark horses every FREAKING year. Dark horses never win the championship, only the elites. The Mavs, Suns and Spurs were just really good back then. We can compete with them but not on the 7 game series. Pretty much, CD and JVG hoped for the best with this team. Nothing less. You do with what you have. Am i saying he handled the Rox organization really well? No. We havent passed the first round in those years. So the blame should definitely go on him. Was he a competent GM? Yes. He drafted Yao ming!! The whole league laughed at the Rox for drafting a what many thought would be another Shawn Bradley. Not only did he turn out to be an allstar, he brought in international revenue for the Rox organization. Honestly, most teams can't really compete for the chip so most of them run their company just to make some profit and from a financial perspective, CD was a genius. The Rox made millions. Its just that expectations shouldnt be their in the first place you know. Oh well. But yeah thats my outtake on it as well.
I was just skimming the last pages of this thread and i can really say that Tmac really i mean REALLY bad luck. Especially for a superstar. He knows he's in the spotlight so he definitely knows he's the no1 to take the blame. But sometimes, I feel for the guy. If you can't, then your a hater. PERIOD. The guy competes on a very high level. It's just so sad that last year, he just couldnt take it anymore. The first round losses, the yearly injuries, the crappy crappy supporting cast. And he had to do it all over again every year. This is Tmac's Rockets life. 04-05. Lost in a series where they were badly officiated. 05-06. Do it all over again and BOOM. MAJOR INJURIES. 06-07. Yao approached MVP status and then gets injured and Tmac had to take over the primary faciliator and primary score. Loses first round again. This is the series that crushes him mentally. 07-08. Hopes for another redo. Starts big and BOOM. Yao goes down. Tmac takes over again, knowing very well, the team wont advance but they still compete. After another first round loss, he has to do it again the following year. 08-09. Happy to start the season but he knew he was injured at the time but wanted to play. Then finds out that he wasnt playing very well and cant find a rythm. Injuries take over. MENTAL BREAKDOWN in the infamous toronto game. Honestly, he's suffering mentally. Big time I would say. Anyone in his shoes should. Add to the fact he had many close friends passing away in those years. WOW, this guy went through a lot, at the court and off as well. Him winning the chip, with all these baggage on his shoulders, would make him legendary. It is almost like a movie-status script. Unfortunately, he didnt but he tried. If you're reading this thread, saying wow motionsiknes, you're a douchebag for writing a Tmac-apologist thread but guess what, it's supposed to be one. Facts are facts. Tmac was a great player and only had good intentions for the Rox organization. He was not selfish. The only GRAVE mistake he ever did was promising the Rox a championship when he came here. That was not smart. I cannot fault him for what happened at Toronto. Eventually some people break down mentally and it happened at that precise moment. But that does not give me the reason to bash his entire stay here in Houston. If all of Houston remembers Tmac's career by that single MOMENT, then honestly those fans aren't great fans to begin with. You appreciate his whole career. Yes, an athlete knows fan's expectations of him, but it is still not justified. Anyways, im done venting.
