Whats the big deal?? I'm making legitimate points while Tinman keeps ignoring those, and brings up random stuff out of nowhere...thats why this has gone on so long... if he understood the TEAM concept of basketball, maybe he would understand that Tmac can't do it all on his own?? Not MJ, not Wilt, not Dream, Not Duncan, Not Kobe, not Lebron, NOBODY. But he fails to realize that...what can I do? It takes 2 to make a great debate...I can't help it if he can't think logically He also feels that because he was born a lot earlier than me and witnessed Dream live (something I can't help), that he knows more basketball than me...I can't help that he thinks ignorantly like that either.
I have an idea. LOL since Tinman does nothing but bring up the past and post video of what guys did the last 10 years or so maybe you can show him an old video since he loves living in the past. IDK just an idea
SMH. Why do you like to live in the past?? Is that the only way you can be happy with the Rockets because you know they won?? 2 bad that was 14-15 years ago.
Look, I don't mind Tinman liking Hakeem...I'm a HUGE Dream fan...my all time favorite player with Jordan right behind him. I'm very proud of what Dream did for the city of Houston as a Cougar and a Rocket, and as a person. He was a great player and a great person. However, this is not a "What if Hakeem's Rockets played Jordan's Bulls in 94 or 95??" thread This isn't a "Dream vs. Duncan" or "Dream vs. Shaq" , or "Dream's overall all time ranking" thread. Therefore, I would only bring up Olajuwon when its relevant. They don't play the same positions, Dream was much better than Tmac, he played in a different era, different rules, Dream went to college for 3 years, while Tmac came straight out of high school, etc. There's just too many differences for their comparisons to be logical. Thats why I bring up Lebron, Kobe, Dwade, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Brandon Roy, Joe Johnson, Carmello Anthony etc. It just makes a lot more sense to compare players of similar positions, skills and era. And of all of the players that I listed, only Brandon Roy has had a comparably bad supporting cast like Tmac in the playoffs. Same can be said about Lebron, but he's a great player that can overrachieve with crap around him. Thats what makes him the best in the NBA today IMO.
For any point you make that he has no answer for, there will only be a reference or youtube clip. Its not worth your time.
Agree with but disagree with you on one situation. Brandon Roy did not have the same garbage McGrady has had. LeBron didn't either. Brandon Roy has a sidekick in LaMarcus Aldridge. LeBron had players next to him its just that they didn't fair together. McGrady had NOBODY. Grant Hill never played. Miller was sent out. I mean looking at the roster McGrady had back in the days and the way he played was just unbelievable. Everyone on here is saying its crazy to compare McGrady and Kobe but I believe it is right. Baring injuries McGrady was probably just as good as Kobe. McGrady made Chuck Hayes for crying out loud a better player. Kobe had Kwame Brown. A taller version of Hayes or probably better. What did he do. Achieve things for himself. Why is Kobe better than McGrady?? because he scored 81 in a game?? Kobe is a hell of a player but the things McGrady put up with I would still label him up there with Kobe. Like it or not. I believe its kind of unfair to mention Wade, Carmelo , and LeBron ( kind of ) to McGrady because the year they came in was the Year McGrady started falling apart. He was up and down but still put up decent or even better numbers than them.
Kobe is a much more efficient player than Tmac, has been, always will be, the only comparison between the two is people who are not willing to look at the truth. DD
Actually that has been the entire time he's been here. If the team produces we win if the team doesn't we lose. But in every series you still had quality production from Tracy but not always from the cast of characters. That's the point I wish to make about that. Again, a volume shooter on a team that doesn't have any other perimeter playmakers or legitimate scoring threats is the bigger issue (outside of Yao of course).
for everytime you kiss up to your fellow tmacker, it doesn't change the fact that his era with the rockets is a failure.
DD and tinman are basically making the same arguments. but let me bring this up. i'm fine with people criticizing tracy for the team's playoff failures, but to blame him completely like you guys are doing? there's a reason no commentator/coach/or any former NBA player who has criticized tracy's play IN THE PLAYOFFS. NOBODY. after every series loss, you never hear anybody saying, "oh, tracy didn't do enough..." if someone can find me a quote or a coach/commentator/opposing players who said, "tracy just didn't play well enough and that's why they lost." after 7 straight playoff losses, you would THINK somebody in the public forum would do it b/c like most on here said, "it's a trend." it must be due to tracy. but NO. those guys play the game or coach the game. yes, tracy's a volume shooter. and? lebron shot for an average of 41% before this past season. AND? again, one would think after so many playoff failures, a barkley or kenny or reggie miller or magic would come out and criticize tracy after a game 6 or 7 elimination. yet i have not seen it. they've criticized him DURING the regular season when he's inconsistent..., but NEVER during or after a playoff series. there's a reason for that. you do NOT criticize a player who put up 27, 7, 6 for his career. his PER is 24 (and yes, i know people dont like this # but it tells a lot sometimes). you just don't. i'm sure people thought joe johnson was such a beast for getting his team out of the first round this year despite sucking like a mofo right? i mean, HE GOT HIS TEAM OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND, despite his PER of 11 right? tracy SUCKED last year. you can call him lazy/selfish or whatever opinions you form of him due to LAST YEAR is fine. keep it at that though.
"They didn't stick Matt Harpring on Dream to shut him down." You are joking right? When has Harpring solely shutdown T-Mac? And I don't mean one series after Tracy has been defended by two other Jazz players either.
you do not need to be kobe bryant to at least get out of the first round. joe johnson has gotten out of the first round as the team's best player. paul antoine walker has gotten out of the first round as one of the team's best player. that's not the argument. i'm bringing up two guys who aren't even close to tmac's performances in the playoffs and they have both advanced. you know why? A TEAM. no, this is not throwing his teammates under the bus. it's not their faults. the talent level just isn't close to the opponents. you know why rafer played 44 minutes when he played with us and only 30 with the magic? you know why we had to play bobby jackson 30 minutes? you know why we had to start chuck hayes, ryan bowen, or even play freakin' scott padgett? or luther head? kobe had lamar odom and caron butler and still couldn't make the playoffs one year. it's not kobe. he just didn't have that inside presence that pau provides. again DD and tinman and whoever, criticize tracy's inconsistencies in the reg. season. fine, i do admit that's a habit tracy has to solve, or is too late to solve. criticize tracy's laziness at times, or his injuries. but i believe tracy has done his part in the playoffs. and i'm sure many who watch the game do also. i still remember during a game last year and reggie miller was commentating, (remember this guy is one of the clutches and best performers in the history of the playoffs) said tracy's one of the best playoff performers in the game today. AND HE NEVER GOT OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND. he's 0-7. yet reggie still made that comment. ask yourself why.
I will tell any laker fan that's knows I'm a die hard rockets fan that kobe was always a better player than tmac. I will also tell them that the tmac era is a failure and I refuse to make any excuses for that failure. the only similarity between kobe and tmac is that they both idolize kobe.
i do agree the era is a failure b/c the team had championship aspirations. but it's due to other reasons than you believe: injuries and role players. there's a reason morey arrives and basically has changed the team's set of role players. rafer is gone. chuck hayes can't even see minutes anymore. where's luther? the only guy who has been through the thick and thin w/ tracy and yao for the most part is shane. again, last year still vividly remains with you. and tracy was a failure by himself last yr.
Call me a Tmac hater but the reason why I think Tmac never had success in the playoffs is his 4th quarter magic act. 1-3 qtrs he has his way, 4th quarter teams tighten their defense on Tmac and bam Tmac has no clue what to do and his team mates who had to watch 1-3 qtrs can't do crap in the 4th because the offense isn't fluid enough. With Kobe he tends to turn up the notch in the 4th qtr. Tmac just fades away. Great playoff stats, too bad his 4th qtr play is lacking. How many times have we seen tmac team needing 2 pts to tie the game and he takes a dreaded long jumper. It's Deja vu in this scenerio. He rarely drives, he rarely takes a smart jumper. It's always a contested long jumper. My 2 cents on his playoff failures.
again, kobe wins championships. we're talking advancing out of the first round. you don't have to be kobe to do that do you? like i said, joe johnson got his team out of the first round. was he clutch in the 4th in ANY game? i guess joe is better than tracy now right?
I'm ready for a new era. patience meter is over for me. do I believe tmac could be an effective player? yes do I believe this is the guy to lead us to glory? no
I agree with u on that he should be more aggressive in the 4th. But without him, there won't be a close 4th quarter for us. The problem i have with him is when his shots ain't falling and he just seem disinterested. some players play hard on both ends of the floor no matter if their shots are falling or not, but with Tmac, when he is on fire, he is motivated and hussles, but when his shots are not falling, he seems to just be on the court because he have to.
