Calderon is a better passer, turns the ball over and can hit the open shot. Not sure why you think its bad. Mo is a better Scorer (other than that they both suck at D and they both don't really display their passing skills) Not sure about Lou, but I like Kelly's list and quite frankly this being a Rockets board, we are going to over value Brooks.
When Kobe missed playoffs that season, he's still better than 90% of SGs who made the playoffs. Basketball is a team game, one player can't completely dedicate how far the team goes no matter how good he is.
KD's opinion is an educated opinion and his opinion is better than that of a lot of people on this board because he watches a lot of basketball. Many people just make stuff up based on having watched only a few games. His opinion is still only an opinion, though.
Good link I wish there was some way to quantify what each PG's role is for their team etc. For instance, one could argue that in Adelman's offense there is no one that qualifies as a PG, that everyone has a more hybrid role than other team's do. It would be difficult to compare statistics for someone like Nash or CP3 with anyone on Adelman's team because the ball is shared so much more than on their teams. Therefore, it seems that at the end of the day, doesn't it ultimately come down to how people view those stats? Making a ranking based upon stats murky at best. But you are assuming that people don't watch as much as Kelly, or that when they watch they have a more trained eye for it and see the game in a different light. I don't know...I always read sportswriters, and enjoy their takes, but still tend to view things from my own perspective. As an FYI - my degree was in broadcasting with an emphasis on Sports, I turned down the career because it just didn't pay enough....does that make me more knowledgeable than you, or anyone else? Not at all, but it does skew my thoughts about what sportswriters actually write. For instance, Fran is an butthead, but he writes very well, whereas Feigan needs a good dose of editing, and his stories are pretty choppy.....meanwhile Solomon is just trying to rile people up. Kelly, IMO, is a good writer, who does his homework but takes a very generic approach. Just different styles.....in all honesty, some of the best writing I have seen on basketball in my opinion is done by our very own Dave Hardisty (and yes, YoYo, I am sucking up)....but it is how I feel...I like the touch of personality, passion, and knowledge.... But, at the end of the day, that is just my opinion...as it were. DD
Well you sure were in my thread this morning... I guess that makes you a cheezeyberry... Seriously DD... Get over yourself... I deal with people like you on a daily bases... And seriously man... You're talking about rep once again... We all know you live for that... I repped both of you guys before. I think I received repped one time from the YoYo on a picture I posted of a chick. Who really cares DD??? Do you need a hug?
That only means a damn thing if his TO rate also drops. AB has a HORRIBLE assist/turnover ratio. Statistically, he cannot pass twice without giving away the ball. PG's do average less dimes in motion offense due to handling the offense less, but as touches go down, so do turnovers for good PG's. AB is a good SCORER and that is all. He cannot pass for **** or run the offense for the team. His lack of court vision and defense hardly compensates for his scoring. It is useless when you give up as many points as you put up.
I agree 100% AB is a GREAT Scorer. IMO Top 10 with the ball in his hands. He can score from anywhere BUT....he can't create or run a fast break. He can't even deliver a post pass!!! What kind of PG can't pass the ball?
That's Kobe...we're talking about Lou Williams, Jose Calderon, and Mo Williams. Also, Kobe was in the ridiculously competitive western conference.
He passes pretty well and got better at it as the year went on.....and his Assist ratio went up significantly once he got finishers around him on the floor. Meh, I have explained that ad nauseum before, if you choose not to listen or comprehend, then it is the darkness you choose to live within. DD
Making a ranking based on something other than stats is a good deal more murky, I'd say. We might well try to keep our criteria as consistent and objective as possible. Looking at statistics (or benchmarks or indicators -- whatever you want to call it) is the best way I know to do that.
There is a new stat called the "DD efficiency rating." Brooks and Budginer are # 1 and 2. But seriously, what you are talking about, finding the true value of players, is what stats like PER, win shares, adjusted +/-, etc. help us do.
Of course, but it doesn't take into account role or task they are focused on by their team or coach. Maybe Morey has a metric like that.....I think they track "True Assist" which was making the right pass, and IIRC, he said Brooks was doing very well at that. I like stats as much as the next guy, but I believe they only tell a portion of the story. Yeah, I think they are attempting to do that, not sure they get all the way there though. The difference Cheezy, is that I was on topic, not making it personal, which you almost always do. You don't know me from squat.....sometimes I am screwing around and am taken seriously, so don't try to go Sigmund on me, it won't work. LOL Take your shots boys.....it is what you do. DD
Yep :grin: DD is infactuated with Brooks' scoring but he's a PG last time I checked. It's all about balance. His assists to turnover ratio and defense must improve. Dwyer is right. 19.6 ppg is impressive but I didn't realize that it took him over 16 shots per game to get there. AB needs to pass more. This shooting first mentality is not going to get it done with Yao back.
Brooks might be a push with 1 or 2 of those guys ahead of him. But, with the exception of 1 or 2 debatable spots, it seems like a solid list. Really in this day and age of no hand checking rules, the system is tailor made for speedy PGs to thrive (now big PGs are coming into style in the draft). It kind of shows how other PGs are just as good as brooks, and that he is a solid starter but the competition is getting better. If he increases his assists, FG% and defense (and reduces turnovers) this year, he should start challenging the top 15-10 spots.
Morey definitely has his own adjustment on stats. Hollinger is only scratching the surface with his analysis.
Again, it boils down to the role he is asked to do, look at his stats the year before when Yao was playing. I don't expect Brooks to have the same role this year if Yao is healthy, do you? Asset management 101. DD
So Lowry has a much better assists rating and a much better TO rating. I wonder if Adelman's system is the reason for that like some posters said.
