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BBall IQ - where do you see our players?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaDakota, Jul 22, 2024 at 9:57 AM.

  1. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Especially when he just jacks up shots after panicking or when the team is down.
     
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Ya. How does your decision making happen when you get bumped by a 220 lb athletic freak?

    This is precisely what Alpi excelled at relative to the other young guys in the past couple of years. His decision making isn't that effected by big defenders bumping him or trying to strip him
     
    #82 fchowd0311, Jul 23, 2024 at 11:49 AM
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2024 at 11:59 AM
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  3. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    A lot of the game is instincts. Reaction. There’s simply no time to think.
     
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  4. dmenacela

    dmenacela Member

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    Media bundling Cam and Reed together as a future superstar pair after their Summer league performance is so cringe. More like Reed and Sengun.

    Don't see Cam being with the Rockets long term due to his low IQ - hope he proves otherwise.
     
  5. LikeMike

    LikeMike Member

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    I see people here using instincts and basketball iq interchangeable - is that right?

    I was thinking basketball iq is basically knowledge of the game. Knowing on every play where each player is supposed to be both for your team and the opponent. Also stuff like Kobe saying, if someone is going up for a shot and one of his legs is behind, it is probably a pump fake.

    Instincts is more like having a feel for the game - knowing where a rebound will bounce, which player will cut or when to speed up or slow down a play.

    Am I wrong? I mean I know that both things are usually connected, but I would call Sengun as someone with great instincts and FVV someone with great basketball iq. Cams IQ is horrible but his instincts are alright.
     
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  6. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    I take BB IQ to mean seeing what's happening in the game and processing what one should do quickly.
    I take instincts as see ball, get ball category (very reactionary to what the other team does). There can be some overlap, but I think of instincts as very reactionary. BBIQ, can be reactionary, but can also be proactive in as there is a decision on how to exploit whatever the other team is doing (e.g., looking off man).

    Instincts by how I think of them apply more to defense and on offense when to do things like cutting when space opens up. I see BBIQ as more on offense like when a PG sees that space will open for a teammate and he looks off the cutter such that a passing lane is open when his teammate instinctively cuts as the space opens up.
     
    #86 Joe Joe, Jul 23, 2024 at 1:33 PM
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2024 at 1:43 PM
  7. krosfyah

    krosfyah Member

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    Yep, which is why I'm high on Tari. I think his BB instinct is potentially at an elite level. If he stays healthy, I'd take him on any contending team and he'll contribute.

    I disagree that there is "no time to think". You often hear players say the game begins to slow down as they get experience.

    I think Jokic is possibly the highest BB IQ the game has seen. The dude is not athletically gifted and yet he's able to be 1-2 steps ahead of everyone else. His ability to anticipate what happens next is unparalleled.

    But also, you often hear, especially on the low block, that getting post position is all about positioning and footwork, neither of which is based on instinct. You gotta beat your guy down the court and get in position.

    Elite PGs obviously need high BB IQ, hence why FVV excels despite his size.
     
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  8. Tuckmose

    Tuckmose Member

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    I'd like to expand on your point, its not so much re-acting to your opponents, but knowing what they're going to do prior to them doing it. It's pattern recognition, which is the main component in both Basketball and IRL IQ. Here's a really good video about how to "find" draft busts, but I've skipped to the part about reactivity vs proactivity, and how you can see it in two different players.

    (the few minutes prior show Okafor's struggles)


    As for Reed, he's shown the ability to take advantage of his strengths to get good shots, even if the 3 isn't falling. The biggest concern I had coming in was whether he'd be capable of playing on-ball as a net positive in the NBA. He's done a very good job of splitting defenders and getting decent looks, but I'm concerned at seeing so many mid-range jumpers against sub-par competition, even if they went in more often than not.

     
    #88 Tuckmose, Jul 23, 2024 at 2:18 PM
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2024 at 2:23 PM
  9. Old School74

    Old School74 Member
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    abbreviation for intelligence quotient: a measure of someone's intelligence found from special tests: Children with very low/high IQs often have problems at school. IQ is just one measure of intelligence.

    Players with high levels of BBIQ can manipulate the game beyond shooting and defense. It's an amalgam of understanding game flow, the strength/deficiencies/tendencies of your teammates, the strength/deficiencies/tendencies of your opponent( individually and team), and clock management and THEN the ability to leverage each one of those things (when needed!!) to benefit the team.

    Right now, JG's BBIQ is still low. One example from his game is that he often drives into tall centers and loose ball trying to use his athleticism and finish. Unfortunately, it doesn't work most of the time. His awareness of the situation and where his teammates are not advanced. It is okay, though. Like I said before, he can improve on that if he works really hard. Game needs to slow down for him and he wasn't there last season. Hopefully, he will improve on that end this year.
     
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  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Jalen Green has the exact same turnover rate as Ant Edwards in drives to the rim and Ant has much strong hands to grip the ball.

    Is this one of those things where you follow one team, and you see Jalen a few times doing this and assume he loses the ball at a very high rate relative to the league or players in his age group with similar responsibilities?

    He has a fg% of 70% at the rim btw. That is higher than someone like Cam who is a lot stronger and has the benefit of scoring at the rim almost entirely on a diet of attacking closeouts, cuts and transition when defenders are back peddling and not set while Green has a significantly higher ratio of his attempts as the rim in half court sets attacking the POA defense

    Jalen Green is pretty decent at dumping it off the the dude at the dunker spot from a drive or hitting the roll man. His main weakness is hitting the corner threes but I've seen him do it more often since the ASB last season.
     
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  11. Dobbizzle

    Dobbizzle Member

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    File this alongside other doozies like "I need to see at least 38% in over 70 of his games" (which would make him one of the GOAT shooters.) None of these guys have the slightest clue what a good young player's supposed to look like, that's why they make up all these idiotic lines in the sand in their head that have no grounding in the reality of basketball. Steph Curry couldn't live up to the shooting standards most of these guys want to hold Jalen to, they're just too stupid to recognise that.
     
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  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    No... it would mean that for 85% of the season he shot 0.9% better than the average for his position last season.

    I get that you are a casual that is just seeking to suck off Jalen Green, but maybe try looking **** up occasionally before making a fool out of yourself like this.

    Also, Steph Curry has never shot under 38% from 3 for the season when he's played more than 5 games in a season....38% is his career low.
     
  13. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    From NBA.com
    Edwards drives about 53% more often than Green per game, turns it over 37.5% more on drives per game (i.e., less often per drive), scores 69.8% more points on drives per game, and has 100% more assists on drives per game.

    I'm a little surprised on the assists and turnover numbers. The scoring, not so much.
     
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    What are you talking about. They literally have a tov% star that does the math. I'm assuming it's the ratio of your drive attempts that end up as a turnover:

    7.4% vs 8%.

    Is that the difference between an elite driver and someone notorious for fumbling it attacking the rim?
     
  15. Tuckmose

    Tuckmose Member

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    Considering Edwards averages two more assists per game than Green, it very well can be. If they both drive to the rim at a similar rate, but one player has more impact as a playmaker, and they have a similar turnover rate, it's safe to assume the player that doesn't pass the ball as often turns over the ball more on drives.
     
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  16. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Maybe there is miscommunication in this made-up criteria…

    but when someone says “38% or higher in over 70 games”, I assume it’s not an average over the 70 games, but rather means the player had 70 individual games of reaching at least 38% …

    In that interpretation, it would absolutely make you a goat-level shooter.

    Curry has come nowhere close to that level of game-by-game consistency, nor is that even reasonable to believe he should.
     
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  17. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    fwiw: getting blocked on a drive is not a turnover.

    It’s a missed field goal.
     
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  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    The turnover rate is just a ratio of drives that end in a turnover. Are you saying Ant passes out more often and a larger share of his turnovers come from passing rather than being stripped at the rim?

    Anyways it's obvious that Jalen isn't some outlier in loosing the ball when attacking the rim. That was the claim I was debating. 8% isn't great for a veteran but very well in line with a high usage 21-22 year old guard.
     
  19. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    It is what it says. If their play on drives was identical besides turnover %, sure that isn't the difference in an elite driver and someone notorious for fumbling it attacking the rim.

    Edwards drives more, shoots less per drive, scores more per drive, passes more per drive, turns it over slightly less per pass, and gets a lot more assists per drive. You are basically arguing they are the same because the Green is close to the thing Edwards is worse at while Edwards is much better at basically everything else regarding driving to the basket.
     
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    Do you have literacy issues?

    I'm attacking a single specific claim. Not that "Jalen Green as of now is equally effective as a driver as Ant Edwards".
     

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