Welllll.. For the sake of being extremely generous, the op does have some spark of a point, although it may not be a terribly good one. The question might be a legitimate one: How can you compare and contrast the bb 'IQ' of a fan whose awareness and 'into-it'-ness of the NBA only goes back to, say, the late 90's (as perhaps an avid Iverson and Kobe fan, and one who who may be very into basketball video games), with that of a fan whose awareness and experience perhaps goes back as far back as the 70's, and who has both watched the game evolve, and also has seen different generations of the some of the all-time greats such as Dr.J, Maravich, Gervin, Monroe, Barry - then on to Bird, Magic, Wilkins, Jordan, Olajuwon, Barkley - then on into the 90's with Shaq, Kobe, Stockton and Malone, and now on into this decade, Wade, Anthony, Yao, TMac, Lebron, Gilbert, KG, etc. The point is, if all one knows is this current generation, then one might possibly lack perspective. Call it whatever you will, but the low point was the Rockets-Knicks 'Uglyball' era, which signaled a sort of transition from basketball as an entertaining sort of athletic ballet, into a boring grindfest, where winning was the only focus, and style points were not important. This is in contrast to the golden era of the 80's, when the Lakers and Celtics were the opposite-coast rivals that everybody either loved or hated. Even if your own team was not in the finals, you watched, you cared, and it was compelling drama, exciting and magnetic. This past championship? Not only did I not watch a single game of the finals, I frankly didn't care one way or the other who won, and apparently neither did many other people across the country. So it may just be that what the op is referring to as bball 'IQ' could be better described as 'perspective' instead. If all one knows is the last ten years, how does one know what the beauty that was the Lakers' fast break, the Celtics' precision, the charisma that was Magic, the unmatched competitor that was Bird? Not sure how relevant all this is. Perhaps it's just a longing for what has been gone since the early 90's. In any case, as far as membership at the BBS is concerned, well, it was only started in the first place in response to the threat that the Rockets might leave town, which places it late 90's, so the op's question in that regard is moot. I myself was a member from about the time that Francis first got here, then drifted away from it, only to join again when Yao was the pending draft choice for us. That's all immaterial. There are long time member as well as rookies who don't have two brain cells to rub together, and there are old-timers as well as new people who have remarkably good insights and knowledge. In the end, though, as the Bard said, it's all just '..sound and fury, signifying nothing.'
For those who were kind enough to actually respond to the part of the thread where I expressed curiosity about your own Baskeball background and experience on and off the court, I'd like to thank you!! For my critics, I'll acknowledge that I am indeed human and subject to feelings of selfishness, egotism, hypocricy and many other less than admirable thoughts and feelings, as we all are. However, I don't believe starting this thread, or expressing curiosity about others, or offering opinions of my own somehow serves only my interests. The inclusion of CC.Net "tenure" was one of multiple items I thought might "inform" one's Basketball I.Q. (and might actually improve someone's Basketball I.Q. (So, for those who felt somehow insulted, you may want to consult a therapist). And, for those who think I'm an "attention w****" (how eloquent/elegant), I'd like to point out that I typically go many months without making a single post and frequently even longer without starting threads of my own. This time of year just happened to coincide with some down time for me....BTW - I have many other places to go if and when I'm in need of approval/status/gratitude/ego stroking, etc. And, my point in starting the thread by quoting another member's opinion was just a jumping off point to validate that I'm not alone in my opinions and to suggest there are differing schools of thought on many issues including what constitutes Basketball I.Q. And, critics, notice please, that I immediately eliminated myself from consideration as one who might, by their collective wisdom be a candidate to offer opinions to Rox Mgmt. (Though the thought that anyone there would listen to anyone here is a fantasy that I'm sure helps the board flourish....) I'm frequently stunned by how willing some are to dish out harsh judgment on everything from use of language, (whether profane or not) to questioning motive, etc.... For my part, I have NEVER singled out an individual on this board for ridicule or harsh judgement without being attacked first. I have instead focused my frustration/anger on the Rockets Mgmt and coaches, who I think should carry most of the blame for fan disappointment. It's actually due to my own reactions as well as those of fellow members/posters that I thought a discussion of individual basketball experience would be interesting and relevant, especially coming right after the draft, and during free agency. We devote entire threads dedicated to each game, picking them apart and many of these "debates" are focused on the merits of individual players and their contributions to the team, so why not learn more about where others are coming from when they offer kudo's or critiques? I think that because I call out the Rockets Mgmt for decisions with which I fervently disagree (frequently offering to retract my crticisms at a later date), I get members, including mods, accusing me of selfishness or egotism or some other ridiculous thing. If we were simply sitting over a beer or soda discussing these same things, instead of typing them out, the mood would undoubtedly be more collegial (See Websters: marked by camaraderie among colleagues) and I'm willing to bet the "discussions" would be far less confrontive. But because we sit behind anonymous keyboards, some assume it's OK to judge other members. I guess that's up to them, but I'm not willing to be someone's digital punching bag simply because I either have an opinion or because I offer it in colorful language. I believe this thread is a legit inquiry, and I offered personal information as a way to bridge gaps not create them, though some can find questionable motives in any thread or post.... !! If I was overly vague in my curiosity and definitions of Basketball IQ then I do apologize. Perhaps limiting my initial post to simply asking how others "define" BB IQ and their view of it's use on and off the court regarding the Rockets might have been seen as less selfish by some. And just so it is in writing, in clear and distinct verbage: I do not believe I have more or better Basketball IQ (either on or off the court) than many of the other participants on this forum. I do think I have "some" knowledge, "some" experience, and therefore, "some" Basketball I.Q. I actually think being part of this forum has helped in that regard. (It's somewhat amusing that includ CC.net "Tenure" was mean as a kind of homage or compliment to the Mods and the members.....) There are SO many ways to flame others and to start "flame" wars on this and other web sites that I find it annoying and mostly a waste of time. To this point, I've even apologized (recently) to the entire board for going haywire with my own reactions to the Rockets draft decisions. So, to sum up, and to be more precise: What's your own basketball experience, and how does it "inform" your thoughts about the ROX off-season thus far? Please also feel free to define what you think Basketball IQ is and isn't. And, if you don't care, please, just change the channel!
wow, how can I get the hard cover version? I am not trying to insult you, but I rarely read posts that have a webster's reference, or that are more than a 1000 words. Its really a lot for just a joe-schmo opinion. If its Clutch, or Chron, or someone with a little inside info.....sure.
I can't believe this becomes a compliment to a poster on this BBS, but sadly it's very true considering the stupid trade proposals we've seen every day.
R R Us...much better stated this time around. The main problem I had with the initial post was, as I kinda said, some undertones of "I'm better" and "I have a higher bball iq" and "I know what the Rockets should do, and if you don't agree, you're wrong". Since you say you didn't intend those undertones, I think we can all dismiss all of that. On your new topic, it's just hard for me to figure out how my experience "informs" my opinion on the offseason thus far and potential future moves. I have opinions. Do I know whether my opinions are because I played for X # of years, because I watched Player Y for many years in the NBA, or something else? Nope, not really. I just know that altogether, my experience has me believing in a certain path. And I think general thoughts on the offseason can go in another thread. Defining basketball IQ? I think it has a better definition on the court than off. I have to go to a softball game now, so I definitely don't have time to try to write it out.
Why didn't you just read the thread started a few weeks ago by denniscd where he said he knew so much and wanted to know how little everyone else knew? People don't want to respond to you in a serious manner because of all the energy wasted on that thread and the similar attitude you seemed to suggest in your opening post. I started following the Rockets around 1984. I started reading Clutch City and the bbs in the summer of 99 (standing on my mother's porch). A few times I played horse with Jeff. He can still shoot. My shot was GONE. He had no back, I had no knees. I once got so angry at a mini-hoop game at Astroworld that my disgust and hurl of the last attempt led to the guy giving me a prize anyway. It was a frog stuffed animal. My wife laughed and said his name was "Bitter the Frog". Happy Halloween.
It just seems that's exactly what you do to every other poster who doesn't agree with you... MUCH BETTER!!! I wish you would have said it this way from the get-go! This leaves room for others to interpret what BBIQ means to them, as opposed to having to adhere to your definition, which comes across as arogant. Anyway, here's my take: I love the game of basketball, I've played competitively since I was like 8, and I think that watching/playing from an early age does help in your understanding of the game as a whole, including the ability to accurately analyze the pro game. (what a run-on!!!!) However, I don't think that if you didn't grow up with the game (like most American boys did?) you are automatically ill-suited to make assessments on the game. (Double-negatives.... wow) Conclussion: Sure, it helps to have a background in the game, but when all is said and done, it doesn't correlate. There are A LOT of nerds who can't even grab the net that are WAY better at building/managing a basketball team than dudes with 45'' verticals.
OK, at the risk of ruining my anonymity, I'll post some of my honors just to prove to you guys I know what I'm talking about: All-Star 1975-76 ABA 1976-77 NBA 1977-78 NBA 1980-81 NBA 1981-82 NBA 1982-83 NBA SMOY 1974-75 ABA All-Defense 1974-75 ABA All-Rookie 1975-76 ABA All-ABA (2nd) 1975-76 ABA All-Defense 1976-77 NBA All-Defense (1st) 1977-78 NBA All-Defense (1st) 1978-79 NBA All-Defense (1st) 1979-80 NBA All-Defense (1st) 1980-81 NBA All-Defense (1st) 1981-82 NBA All-Defense (1st) 1982-83 NBA All-Defense (1st) 1983-84 NBA All-Defense (1st) 1984-85 NBA All-Defense (2nd) If you've paid attention to any of my previous biographical-type posts, you'll quickly realize I have such a high BBall IQ that I was in the pros before I was out of Jr. High and finished my career right after graduate school.
1. What informs my opinion as a fan are my observations having watched the NBA with relatively intense interest since the early 1990s. Also, I have a background in applied mathematics, graduated with a JD and am currently employed as a lawyer working primarily on commerical matters, as such, I have taken an interest in, and taken some time to read about the NBA's collective bargaining agreement and the management side of things. 2. Given what I know, here's how my views tend to be different from a certain crowd: i.I tend to value the good role players-- the Horrys, the Battiers, the Doug Christies, the Carl Herreras, etc more than many here. I also tend to understand the budget contraint of the NBA teams and have tend to believe the "splash mentality" is somewhat asinine, given that yesterday's splash are often today's bad contract. In
to Continue on my unfinished post: I also tend to not get all worked up about NBA owners operating their business like, well, a business. I believe it is naive to buy into all the "championship or bust" talk. Finally, I like Morey because he takes an approach that eliminates a lot of the errors when management get overly excited over empty fantasy stats or empty combine scores. He understands the value of guys like Hayes and Battier and understands why guys like Cato and Mo suck. I like the fact that he doesn't seem to give a crap about what some random BBS members b**** about and makes decisions to make the team better, not to satisfy some fetish for a "SPLASH."
Yes, because this thread was all about the Rockets and not someone condescendingly explaining why some posters are right, while others are wrong. I thought it would be funny to ignore the self-indulgent, self-aggrandizing, self,self, self rant, and "correct" a mistake... Pretentious people usually take themselves way too seriously and hate being corrected. You seem to take things way too seriously. Take a deep breath, relax, and review everything you have written. Let serious-cat be your guide on this journey... http://seriouscatstares.ytmnd.com/ Take care, my friend. Hopefully we will cross each other's paths in the future. “Promise me you'll always remember: You're braver than you believe, and stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think." Christopher Robin to Winnie the Pooh One love,
Can i be the first to nominate this as: The most boring thread ever, I feel like I lot a few IQ points after reading this. So....hows the weather?
I have read what I wrote. My Catholic relief services friend, WWJD? Not what you did. The topic starter's point is that lots of Clutchfans followers have no more knowledge about the game than stat sheets. There is nothing snotty about wanting to understand somebody's background before hearing them out. The bottom line is that you were an arse wipe. Now repent, you little twerp.
