We are aware of that.There is no guarantee of winning even with the top pick,but there is no guarantee of winning anything with the way we are constituted right now either even with a fully healthy team.
I was just going to respond to the thread, but I picked this entry instead because of the "hand in a shooter's face" comment. I think Shane moves his feet well laterally and that makes him an above average defender. The hand in the face move made him an even better defender. I may be wrong and I'd like for a ref or somebody to correct me, but I believe face guarding is illegal and can be called a technical foul. If it becomes too prevalent I believe the league will encourage the rule's enforcement. As to Shane's value, I think Rocket fans and management value Shane more than the league does. I think he is a good solid rotation player. I don't think he can demand much on the trade market because of his offensive deficiencies at a traditionally high output position. Shane's pros: Good, not great, defensive player. Good teamate and veteren presense. Great work ethic. Ok shooter. Consistent. Shane's cons: Not a take charge guy. Disappears offensively. Cannot or will not manufacture his own shot. Doesn't fit Adelman's motion offense since he mostly camps out in the corner. People are overating Shane if they value him more than Prince, Miller, Artest, Maggette, Richardson, Jefferson, draft picks 1-5 plus rotation player upgrade (backup sg for example). They are undervaluing him for just a draft pick 6 or later and contract fodder.
I've never heard of 'faceguarding' being illegal - and seeing as how Shane was doing it constantly against Kobe in a highprofile situations - i cant see it being wrong. Anyway, I fully agree that too many fans grossly undervalue Battier. His efforts dont always show up on the stat sheet, but his efforts (as well as what he inspires in his teammates - like Sura did) are priceless. Trading him for 'a 3rd scoring option' would just be stupid. That 3rd scorer could be attained for a draft pick or 2 and some fodder (ex Head) - but go try to find (let alone get) a defender of Battier's caliber.
Please tell me where we can find this elusive third scorer who can be had for peanuts. You might also want to take a look at the starting small forwards for every other team in the league. I dare you to find 10 teams that would definitely take Battier over their current starting small forward. Honest question: If Battier didn't go to Duke and wasn't Coach K's golden boy while there, would he be any more valuable than James Posey?
Shane Battier is Ron Artest with a 3pt shoot, with character and intergrity, and the 2 have similar contracts. Anyways I wouldn't trade for Battier for Artest as he is selfish and looking for a new deal now. I would trade Battier for...ummm Rudy GAY though...
...I don't think that's entirely accurate. Battier never initiates offensively where as Ron Ron will try and back down anyone. As much as I like Battier, Ron Artest brings instant toughness and a legit scorer to the table(although he is one of those high volume kind of guys). Artest is one of the only guys in the league who can fill out an entire stat sheet. He's a head case for sure, but I don't think he is a bad team mate necessarily(except when his bad decisions cost his team) and he has a hell of a work ethic to boot...just really crazy. I think Artest is a much better player than Battier - much better on the court....but it's all the things he does to keep himself off the court that hurt him.
no no no Ron Artest is an offensive version of Shane. They both play great defensivly 1 on 1, Artesr is very strony and physical. But the dofference is Artesr is very useful on the offensive end too. You can easily post up him on simply every player in this leauge. He can attack the rim, but he can also be a good outside shooter. I would say Ron is better, he is more useful.
I haven't read much of this debate, but I did look up SFs. According to Rotoworld, these are starting SFs (and I think they're better than Batty): Pierce, G. Wallace, Deng, Lebron, Josh Howard, Carmelo, Granger, Maggette, Gay, R. Jefferson, Turkoglu, Igoudala, Artest, Jeff Green, Kirilenko, Butler That's half the league, making Batty look pretty average. Plus, these SFs could be argued to be as good or better than Batty: Stojakovic, Bowen, Outlaw Find a player who can defend pretty well but also has offensive skills.
Battier - $6,373,900 Pierce - $18,077,903 Lebron - $14,410,581 Deng - $7,100,000 G. Wallace - $8,287,500 Howard - $9,945,000 Melo - $14,410,581 Maggette - $8,400,000 Jefferson - $13,200,000 Artest - $8,450,000 Turkoglu - $6,864,200 Kirilenko - $15,080,312 Butler - $8,999,980 Iguodala - last year of rookie deal, fixing to make the big bucks Gay - rookie deal Green - rookie deal (on the Rox team last year, he would not have been better than Battier) Yeah............most of them are better than Battier. Now, how do we acquire any of them? And how much better are they going to be on this team playing around 111???? Would Kirilenko really be worth almost 2 1/2 times what Battier is worth playing as the 3rd option to 111??? There are some of these guys I would like to add without giving up Battier, add them as the third swingman, maybe the starter, but as the third swingman so our 96 minutes at the 2/3 slots could be split between McGrady, Battier, and whoever. We need a 3rd swingman. EVEN IF WE TRADE BATTIER IN A COMBO DEAL FOR BUTLER OR ARTEST OR MAGGETTE OR JEFFERSON................WE WOULD STILL NEED A 3RD SWINGMAN. Battier has tremendous value because his bang for his buck.
Good thread. I can't believe how much I read about people who want to trade him for someone who will provide some offense, but not be able to even come close match the intensity on defense (such as Mike Miller). Battier guards the opponents best wing player every single night and does it terrificly. And when the Rockets go in a cold stretch, it's usually a Battier three that finally gets them going again. He has so much value that you cannot see by the stat sheet. We traded Rudy Gay for him. Obviously the organization realizes the kind of value he brings, but apparently the fans always want someone that's flashier on offense.
Can't remember who, but someone has a sig that has Kobe numbers pre and current Battier. Pre-Shane kove put up 27 ppg and with Battier he's dropping 35ppg. So where did the notion come from that Battier is the Kobe stopper? I would like to see a long gifted athelete like Outlaw being coached up defensively. That would be insane. Battier wasn't worth the 6th or the 8th they gave up for him. He's a knight on the chess board. A few more moves than a pawn, that's it. We're trying to get the queen and if we have to sacrifice the knight, so be it.
We are not blind.We know that he brings things beyond the stat sheet,but most of the Battier lovers don't see what he can't do either.He has limitations and we need more offense along with his defense.
I pray that other teams value Battier as highly as some of you guys do. I would trade him for Travis Outlaw straight up and consider it a steal.
Technically, Battier is the 2nd best SF on his own team. McGrady is really a 3 now but plays SG cause Mr. Intangible cant play any other postion. Like Pierce, who also came into the league as a SG, he's bigger than he was earlier in his career and isn't as quick....so at 6'9 its a natual move to SF for McGrady
I learned that I have to let alot of things go on this board, but I pray to god some of you guys never work for the Rockets.
