Battier's offensive liability can no longer be ignored

Okay, so you can't tell me how he is a better player other than some people said he was and he put up good numbers in the playoffs. Gotcha.

BTW
Ariza vs Orlando in the finals:
37 min/g
56 shots at 35% shooting
50% free throw shooting

Way to do it on the big stage.

 

I drink from the fountain of wins. Right now Ariza is winning and Courtney Lee isnt starting. Battier is sucking. His offense and defense are worse than Arizas. Our team might even be worse without Ariza despite having Yao back. Thats the biggest Ariza backer there. I dont believe that last part is true but?? It could be. Battier is just that bad and Lee wasnt that much of a good haul for Ariza. I cant believe all Morey got for a starter Ariza was Courtney Lee still. i just cant. He got robbed.

 

Whats wrong with Chase being in a 3 man rotation with trevor and kevin? Start Trevor and martin, then bring in chase. Chase could come in and play 15mins behind martin and 18 mins behind Trevor. Wouldnt that have made more sense offensively and defensively?

 

I think we need a 3 man rotation, but I would rather it be Chase, Lee and Shane.

DD

 

The idea that Lee is somehow not a 'championship role-player' because his team didn't win the championship is utterly ridiculous.

As for who's 'better', it depends on what you're judging on. Ariza's going to put up more points, steals, and rebounds than Lee. He is, after all, playing starter minutes. But Lee is a solid backup at a position of need, plays good defense, is relatively efficient, and comes with a 6 mil trade exception at about a third of the salary.

I'm quite satisfied with how we came out in this trade.

 

Alright, DD. I enjoy your posts too, but let's stop with this editing thing. My 11-year old is a huge Rockets fan, and he reads ClutchFans, so I don't want him reading something that I really did not write. Fair enough?

 

Like many have stated, it was a money AND because Morey probably thought C-Bud was ready. IMO, he is almost ready.

 

I think it was the Adelman factor. Coach and him couldnt get along. Money factor would have had me happier to send Martins huge contract out for a defensive minded player to play along side Ariza. That would have made more sense money wise and defense and team win wise. The coach got his players though. Unfortunately.

 

Let me go real slow for you: Ariza is a better overall player than Lee. He impacts the game in more ways than Lee. Btw, nice cherry picking of stats. I guess you didn't watch the 2009 WCF or NBA Finals and missed all the big plays Ariza made and how he stepped it up when it counted the most. Also, you didn't compare Ariza's stats with Lee's across the board in the 2009 NBA Finals either. You're just conveniently picking and choosing what suits your "argument" the best.

 

Its just seems to me like you point to these players after the fact. After they've won a ring, you say, "now that is a championship role player, unlike battier(and lee)". Literally, yeah he's not. Potentially? It doesn't make much sense. You talk like these role guys are pre-determined before entering the NBA and Houston just refused to pick them, when in reality they became that by being put in certain situations by great teams led by superstars. Those who argue he's a championship role guy are refering to potential, while you're countering it being by being literal....so i'm wondering if you're doing it just to counter their statements easily, or if you truly believe that a ring decides which player is better. Usually it would be silly to ask that, since the obvious answer is no, a ring alone can't determine that, but by the way you argue this I can't be sure in this case.

And you didn't answer the question i asked. If 5 years from now Ariza hasn't gone past the first round again, would you still refer to him as a championship role player because he's won it before and stepped up, or would you strip him of the title since he hasnt been put in that situation to prove himself again?

sort of like a certification i guess...is he a certified championship role player for his career now or does he have to keep proving himself to keep/renew the certification? Is posey still certified, although he can't even hold a rotation spot anymore, or does he have to prove himself again?

Sounds like a fair weather fan to me.

the problem is looking at individual players or positions and not the whole team/rotation. A swingman rotation of Ariza/bud/KMart sounds great to me...but if you tell me brooks is at point and scola at PF, then i think i rather have some more defensive options at the guard spot. Lowry is already at PG spot and battier at the SF, but there's none at SG. That's where Lee comes in. It balances things out..whether it'll work or not is yet to be seen, but i can definitely see the reasoning behind the move, especially when there's a financial benefit involved.

 

ROFL

Dodged the question, not once, but twice!

THEN

Love the cherry picking comment too. Two finals appearances, one great, one terrible and BOY DOES HE REALLY STEP IT UP ON THE BIG STAGE. And I am the one cherry picking. LOLOLOLOL

 

You're the one twisting the argument around in an attempt to find a weakness with it. You're also dealing with hypotheticals. Your focus on the term 'championship role player' is confusing you in relation to my broader point. I'm talking about role players that have stepped up when its counted the most as opposed to those who have been in the same position and shrank. Posey and Ariza, when given the opportunity in the playoffs, fall into the former category. Battier and Lee are part of the latter group, which is why neither of them should start and/or play over 30 mpg. Your current point about Posey is moot since he, like Shane, is past his prime, which is why he isn't playing and which is why Battier shouldn't be playing. As long as Ariza is in his basketball prime and continues to perform well when it matters the most I will continue to classify him in the 1st category above. Now will you answer my question?

I don't know why I bother with you, but I will try one last time. What part of my answer did you not understand? Nobody is dodging anything. The fact that he is a better overall basketball player means that he's going to score more, grab more rebounds, steals, blocks, etc... than Lee. I would say that he's more explosive than Lee in going to the basket and they both play solid d, although I would give the slight edge to Ariza in that category while Lee is a better shooter.

Also, I'm not cherry picking anything. You're the one that is guilty of that and when we combine that with your inability to suppress your emotions, we get the usual ridiculous or silly post from you. Ariza was not a rotation player in the 2008 NBA playoffs. Thus, that is a moot point. Look at the 2009 playoffs as a whole and see how well Ariza played. Go look at how he made game changing/game saving/game winning plays. Also, stop avoiding the comparison of Trevor's stats across the board vs. Lee's numbers in the 2009 NBA Finals. That will give you even further proof.

 

That's all i was looking for...

If we're talking about players as individuals and their skills, and not how they fit on the team, i'd say Ariza is better than Battier because he's entering his prime as battier is leaving his....but i think Lee is currently better than Ariza. He's more well-rounded, mainly because his fundamental skills are much more smoother and natural. Athletic-wise, he's quicker in every direction, has comparable or better hops and strength. He just doesnt have the same length.

 

These are his number like last games numbers. Figure out which low numbers are what for yourself.

Shane Battier, SF 22 1-4 1-3 0-0 0 4 4 3 1 0 1 1 -8 3

 

So, what is this second half showing us now? Turns out when Battier doesn't defer and gets in a rhythm he's not that old after all...

IMO, this means AB and KM are taking too many shots. More ball movement and balanced scoring is RA's system after all.


That, and D'Ish is amazing.

 

He does what he recognizes as the team needing him to do to help us win. When there are people in there who are better offensive options, he doesn't try to take shots away from them, which makes him look worse with regard to offensive stats than he actually is. In the second half of this game, he recognized that more offense was needed from him, so he delivered.