The score sheet actually does lie about chuck, even with +/- considered. He has such a big impact not only on the number of shots he changes and prevents, but he isn't credited with the blocks or steals that he deserves as well. Just a thought.
For the season, Battier has the worst +/- out of all the rockets. Also, his worst performances have occurred during some of our biggest games. 10/27 @ Portland: -22 (worst on team) 11/10 @ Dallas: -24 (worst on team) 11/15 @ Lakers: -15 (worst on team, the only one in the negative) Hey Budinger, let's party!!! Shane's a great leader though, we can't lose him.
He gets singled out at times for praise too. The OP wanted to know why his +/- was poor in this game. It could have been asked the game thread,but there is no reason why anyone should be offended by this thread either.
Rv, u missed the point again. The league, not adelman likes the one skill guys. Go and look at any adelman team and find me a wing like shane. Go find a pf like chuck and a pg like rafer. You can't because those aren't the kind of guys he prefers. The closest he had was christie, but christie was a point forward and great athelete. I played against the guy in college and he could actually run point and was a great defender. He allowed bibby to play basically sg. Now adelman will coach anyone, but he now has his type of wings. Just like when he got his kind of pf chuck stop playing, shane is going to be reduced.. Now if jvg was still here, chuck,shane, rafer and our piss poor offense or multiplicity would still be in vogue. Under adelman and the way he likes to play, shane doesn't fit playing more than 20 mins a night.
Neither Shane or Chuck are one skill guys. I'm not saying they're ideal Adelman players, but how many centers can defend the post, average 2 steals a game, play excellent pick-and-roll D, and also get a rebound and lead a fast break like Chuck Hayes? Is all that "one skill"?
both know how to cut and set themselves up for good passes as well. I'm not buying this "not Adelman players" theory.
They aren't threats to score unless they're being set up by someone else is what leebigez means, which is a valid point. Adelman likes to have a number of scoring threats on the floor -- it just gives you more options out of your sets. I get that. I just don't regard them as "one skill" players.
Durvasa, maybe one skill is a poor choice of words. Maybe limited is more of what im saying. Like I can't see shane or chuck playing for adelman in portland or sacramento. That's not saying they're poor players, I just think a adelmann kind of player is different bigtime. When we're talking about a wing and we're into another chapter. Again, adelman will coach what he has, but his past preferences kinda show what he likes. Look how he phased corliss out for peja and how the move was made for bibby as a recent footprint. Hell, look how chuck went from playing good minutes to not playing once scola and landry started getting use to the nba.
I think Chuck's minutes getting reduced is less an indictment on him, and more about Landry impressing with his offensive skills and athleticism. There are only so many minutes available at the front court positions, so someone's going to be the odd man out. On most nights with a healthy Yao, Scola, and Landry, it's been Chuck. Understandable, considering that offense has been the bigger need for our roster in recent years.
i get your point, i just dont understand how some fans aren't just saying "shane should be replaced/benched", but instead "shane will be replaced/benched". There's no sign yet that will be the case. Rafer's case was different. During that time our team was full of guys who couldn't score, which opened the door for rafer to shoot 10+ shots a game at a horrible %. On top of that he was the oldest guy of the "core". You knew his time here was almost done when they drafted brooks. The fact that Lowry became available fast forwarded the end for him. For some reason you only see the game in terms of defensive and offensive abilities when refering to battier. You say shane is one skilled because he only plays "defense", yet you turn around and rave about another player who's multi skilled because he shoot, drives, dribbles, but isn't that "offense"?? Why not break down all the defensive things battier does? Why does it have to be he just plays "defense" and that's one thing, one skill? Defense includes many different parts just like offense does. Adelman doesn't just want guys who shoot dribble and pass. He wants guys who can react on the fly, that's what his offense is based on. No one on the team, except for maybe chuck, is as aware of what's going on like shane. He's paying attention to his man and what your man is doing. He's looking to see if you're going to get picked or not to let you know. Against LA, when we needed run the time off late in the game, brooks let a 3 fly, and so did trevor (i think), luckily we got the off rebound twice, and shane was the guy who went to the top of the key, motioned to settle down and brooks then worked the clock. Isn't that part of the offense too? If a pg can be credited for having that skill, the ability to control the pace of a game by doing the same thing battier did, why can't battier also be given credit? the word intangibles gets thrown out a lot, but they're there, it's all on tape, no one is making them up.
RV, chuck reads and reacts to the defense better than shane. That's not to say chuck shouldn't, but knowing when and where to cut is part of bbiq. I has been said how high shanes bbiq is and how efficient he is yet he is a guy that doesn't allow the offense to get him easy buckets. Again, this isn't just about scoring as much as it is flowing in the offense. This team needs contributions from everyone because they're missing a lot of points out of the lineup. Like I said, its a pretty penny to pay, but he'll be playing 20 something minutes a night.
i'm refering to being aware on both ends of the floor, chuck is great at it too, especially on defense and his individual assignments, but when it comes to talking to teammates and pointing out things, sometimes literally, shane is more active and vocal than chuck on both ends. Maybe that's because shane is around the perimeter, so there's more to see and react to... Sometimes the offense can flow on talent alone, but sometimes it needs direction as well. Ariza and bud's talent alone won't decide if they cut into shane's PT, it's going to be their ability to make the best play in given situations, whether that is to shoot or pass up the shot.
