battier's single three pointer was during a crucial swing in which the Rockets took the game back. to say he had no impact, or to complain about his +/-, Do you people watch the games or just react to boxscores? dude couldn't stay out of foul trouble. in fact, the refs were letting the physical activity go, and at one point the LA announcers declared that the refs were only seeing one jersey number, and it was shane's...
Ive said before this change would happen if trevor did well offensively and his D didn't revolve around gambling as much...trevor is better offensively than shane, but both can be very inefficient, trevor though, takes a lot more shots, while fans want to compare ppg and declare that's all that matters, adelman can't be happy about the shots trevor rushes and jacks up. If that keeps happening i can see bud taking minues from both shane AND trevor. I think eventually they'd play almost equal minutes and would be subsitituted very strategically. As for tmac, that's still a time away, nov 23 is just the mri and when he should start to practice full speed for full practices. I can't see him getting significant minutes for at least 2 weeks after that. We'll have to wait and see how that plays out, if he's dealt or not, etc. Also, i think trevor is a good defender and could possibly defend kobe better in the post up, but Morey/adelman will take kobe's injnury into consideration, along with the ron shoe incident and the ring presentation. That's more than enough to boost trevor's D a few notches, so yeah, he'll have to prove it wasn't mostly an emotional boost.
"Agree. Even after a huge win, some people are still not happy." "Do you people watch the games or just read the boxscores?" Wow, do (some of) you people read the posts or just react angrily without thinking? Nowhere did anyone express displeasure at the "huge win". I certainly didn't. And as stated in the OP, I DID NOT WATCH THE FIRST HALF OF THE GAME. I was at work. I need to work to pay rent and put food on the table. And because I didn't watch the first half, I posted a question/comment regarding Shane's play, since he rode pine in the 2nd half, the half I watched, and his boxscore line was abysmal. Man, I wonder if (some of) you are just a moron or wilfully ignorant. How about reading the post before reacting like a crybaby? Fortunately, this only applies to a select few posts. Most people were thoughtful and chewed over the Battier question. I haven't sensed any real Battier haters out there. But the question arises: would Shane be better suited to a bench position, especially as Buddinger learns the ropes and especially if (when?) T-Mac returns? Boxscores don't tell you the whole story, but they don't lie, either. The really good ones and the really bad ones usually have some meaning behind them.
+/- for individual games should not be overanalyzed. I said the exact same thing in the pro-Battier thread.
My point is if you bothered to stop focusing so much on opportunities to destroy battier with your posts and instead focused more attention on the board as a whole, you'd know what i'm refering to.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I call 'em like I see 'em. But I apologize if I missed something (I was away from the board for a few days). Would you be kind enough to explain what you were referring to? I thought you were saying that since the box score lies about Chuck, there's a good chance it lied about Battier's performance last night against LA. To which I would respond that +/- doesn't lie about Chuck, and +/- is what we're talking about in this thread.
Battier is looking very old and slow at this point. Could Tmac take his spot when he hopefully gets well.
Shane still brings leadership to the team but overall it is obvious he has lost a step and really misses the slower pace and paint help of Yao. Ariza is the superior defender in my opinion. Shane's strategy on Kobe hasn't really worked since that NY time piece on him.
i was refering to chuck's strips not being listed as steals and given to the rocket that comes up with the ball, as well as his strips on the way up being listed as blocks.....therefore his stls on the boxscore don't always reflect how many he really stole.
as far as kobe is concerned, shane's "hand in face" strategy has been overblown/overrated by some since he started doing that. It's something that works significantly when you first use it against kobe, basically the first game, maybe 2. Has it affected kobe since? I'm sure it still blinds kobe sometimes and throws off his shot, but not as much as it did initially. Shane's real strategy has always been to just force him into the toughest shots possible, by either funneling him to a certain side on the court and/or challenging every attempt without fouling. That is the strategy that is now not as effective this season because Yao isn't standing in the paint, which helps direct kobe. the fact that Kobe also change his game doesn't help either. In this case then, Trevor would be more effective, as long as he doesn't gamble too much, since he's longer and kobe doesnt have the luxury to look at hours of tape on how trevor guarded him. Now the questions to consider: 1. Are Morey/adelman thinking that once Yao returns, shane will be more effective? 2. Will kobe too adapt some to Trevor's defense once he has a chance to look over tape and figure out trevor's approach? And let me say in advance these are legit questions to think about, so do me a favor and leave all the "shane still sucks cus i say so" replies at home, i dont care if you agree or disagree, just try to use some basketball logic when answering..
My whole deal about shane is I think he's a 20 min bench guy. He's going to bring the same thing off the bench as he does starting like chuck and deke in the past. We all know that when he plays great without stats, people bring up +/-, but when he doesn't play well without stats, its a non issue. I believe what my eyes tell me and my eyes tell me he's a bench player. People have been excited with chase and ariza and their ability to be multiple, but to me a wing player is suppose to be that way. A wing is suppose to be able to take it to the rim and dunk it in trafficc like chase did. A wing is suppose to be able to fill the lane on a break and finish or catch a alley. Much like before getting scola and in particular landry, we were accustome to seeing guys that couldn't and made excuses vs seeing what guys are suppose to do. Point guards are suppose to be able to break people down off the bounce. First it was rafer, then it was chuck although through injury he's made it back, now its shane. Adelman likes playing basketball with multi skilled guys vs specialist. He didn't have any specialist guys in portland nor did he have any in sacramento. Chase,trevor, and even tracy are basketball players, not specialist. If tracy comes back to some degree of health, shane will be phased down to 20 mins a night. That's what he's suppose to be anyway.
It's all Artest fault. After he threw away Ariza's shoe, it went down hill for the Rockets in the next 5 minutes.
i disagree that certain players have to be a certain way, the league is full of non traditional players who don't fit the definitions, from bowen and ben wallace to monta ellis and aaron brooks. If they're not working out, then yes change it, regardless of whether it's shane or ray allen, but don't do it just because they don't fit a certain definition. It's not a one on one tournament where guys from the same position go at it, it's a team effort, you find individuals that fit together . I can't question why Morey keeps shane or most of these guys around when game after game they keep showing they fit well together. I'm more concerned with the guys who are inconsistent for chunks of seasons (due to injuries), the two who aren't in uniform right now.
its been said, but yes, battier was in at the beginning when the rockets were getting drubbed, and then he went out with some quick fouls. that is what killed his +/- in this game. i saw some great defense in this game. including pulling the ball out of lamar odum's hands toward the end of the game when the lakers were trying to get back in it.
Honestly I think that he's primed for a big drop in performance as well, but he's still our guy and I still think that the team loves him. Sometimes that's all that counts, the good guys still won.
