You're delusional if you think that Battier didn't have a positive effect out there. +/- numbers on a game by game basis may not be accurate on many occasions as you pointed out, but I believe that Battier's +8 is very fitting for the effect that he has out there.
I am definitely still ok with getting battier. Looking at the stats from last night I am mostly concerned with our bench. Tmac was basically playing the point last night as well as the scorer and all of the above and that should be a major concern. Boozer played great last night. We needed a bigger body on him and small ball will not work all the time. Some are saying Swift may have helped. I agree he may have helped a little bit but if he is constantly lost and still slow on rotating on D then he would have still been a liability against a smarter Boozer. I really am surprised we didn't aim after a PF this offseason especially if we aren't playing J Howard.
You can't form any strong conclusions from it. But considering the disparity (-18 when Battier was off the floor), it's safe to assume the Rockets would not have been well off if Battier sat out the game. You don't need a stat to figure that out though; anyone with common sense knows we lack quality depth at PF. This is a strawman. Of course there are a lot of factors that go into a +/- stat. Those factors do tend to even out over the course of one season, or (certainly) many seasons. Battier consistently had strong +/- numbers while he was in Memphis, from season to season. There is something to that. As for what it tells you in a single game ... exactly what I said. The team played well, overall, with Battier on the floor. You don't know if they played well because of Battier, or if they played well inspite of him. Both are possibilities. People were going on and on about Battier not playing well, and how the Rockets were getting torched by Boozer becaue Battier can't play defense. Well, the +/- stat does indicate that the Rockets problems came more when Battier was off the floor than on the floor. That's about the extent of what you can draw from it, and that was my only intention.
durvasa, you REALLY need to grasp that plus/minus is not the only thing to consider about the game of basketball. In fact, ANYONE can show how ridiculous your ideas really are by simply realizing that this whole theory is based on "who is on the floor with each other player" The mere fact that you not only fail to grasp this, but also INSTEAD use that as a way to boost your ideas by claiming that only "certain" players work with "certian other players" is coomplete nonsense. It's also complete nonsense to keep rating players specifically on PER and such. Believe it or not, many other people are simply intrested in winning games.
That's obvious. Duh. You don't read too well, do you? PER doesn't "rate players" as in tell you how good they are. It merely summarizes their box score contributions ... why may or may not reflect how strong their performance was. And how do you win a game? By scoring more than the opponent. *gasp* That's a stat!
Then perhaps you can actually talk about basketball JUST ONCE JUST ONCE in perhaps JUST ONE post about JUST ONE subject even instead of nothign but PER plus minus every damn time on every damn topic in every damn post on every damn thread. And hate to break it to you, but Hayes all of a sudden has much worse geek stats. Using your ideas he now as an improved 2nd year player has significantly gotten worse than he was as a rookie. But hey using your anaylsis skills Yao should have benched in his 3rd season.
Go through my post history, genius. Well, I predicted his box score stats would probably not be as impressive in his second year. I'd still be surprised if Juwan's numbers look better by the end of the season. At any rate, Hayes does a lot of things on the court which aren't captured by PER. He hasn't gotten significantly worse. If you're asking why his stats don't look as good, there are several reasons. I suspect that him playing a different position (center) is a big part of it. The rebounds don't come as easy when you have to box out players who often dwarf you. What "analysis skills" would lead to such a conclusion? Are you actually trying to compare Yao in his 3rd season to Juwan Howard? Wow, you really have no idea what these stats are conveying.
Rudy gay scored 21 points but he did so as one of the focal points of the offense, which is something he couldnt be with the Rox. This trade is not going to be about box scores. It is more about fit. The rox needed someone who could shoot and play PF. Gay can not play PF. Therefore, his minutes would only come when it was time to spell tmac, snyder, head or eventually Wells. With battier it is more about how he fits the needs of this team. Gay is more talented offensively then battier, but battier has more of what the rox need. The most talented teams dont always win. Just look at the world championships this summer.
so what boozer did on thursday wasn't a rampage? (24 pts 19 rebs) at least might have gotten more boards, more blocks, more points, and could have actually altered some shots some PFs are bangers, some are athletic, battier is neither
Battier got into early foul trouble. He is a much smarter player than that and that won't be the norm. That is why i'm not as worred aoout the first game. Battier will be in there much longer. Bonzi will be back and hopefullly sura within a month.
So ur comparing Rudy Gay with Tmac????? LOL. Also if you look at Rudy Gay's preseason stats as well as his season stats, you will see he jacks up shots like no other. I also saw few of the preseaon games and watched the opening game, he seems selfish and looks like he is more concerned about his stats by scoring more rather than playing for the team to win. He might become a good player at some point, but Rox just cant wait for that when we already have Yao n Tmac who needs to be surrounded by proven players. On the other hand, Battier is an all around player. We did not need Rudy Gay, who most of yall think will be a superstar, as we already have 2 superstars in Yao n Tmac. So it just makes sense to get a guy like Battier that can help our superstars and is by far one of the best role players in the NBA right now. I admit i was not happy at first with the trade, but now i think Battier fits alot better right now as we are aiming to win championship rather than experiment on rookies.
I love how people can pass superfluous judgements based on one game. As far as having guys who can't create their own shots, it seemed to work ok for the Lakers when only Shaq and Kobe could create their own shots while the rest of the guys were busy getting open looks as a result of them and playing hustle defense. And for what its worth there were a bunch of other teams who lost thier first game of the season including but not limited to Miami, Dallas, Detroit and Phoenix. Some pretty good company right there. Ironically enough the Kobe-less Lakers are 2-0 to start the season...
