Battier for Rudy Gay/Stromile is not paying dividends

That draft was not about we lost Rudy Gay. It's about how we lost Brandon Roy.

Can we trade Battier for Ron Artest? Just tell the Maloofs that Adelman will buy them a beer and a lap dance after the trade.

 

You are missing the point.
But I'm getting lazy.

 

I thought you were saying:

GMs have to rely on much more than just "stats" to assess a player's potential. And regardless of what their "stats" said, they have to be held accountable if their decisions turn out to be the wrong one.

Not what you meant?

 

Let me be honest, I thought that the trade was awful, franchise destroying type of trade a potential all-star for some guy from Duke who is only a role player.

But over last season, for what Shane does is greatly make the Rockets more stable. I still thought that Rockets organization is somewhat short-sighted and misguided. But, it mostly proved me wrong last year. I was one of the biggest RG supporters, even weeks before the draft. I thought he would be the third wheel and finally help Houston into a conference power-house. Here comes draft day, we have a chance at Roy and Gay, but not certain. All of sudden, the teams in front of pass Gay over and I'm like, "Yeaahhh, we're going WCF next year and were finally going to get past the Mavericks."

Then, David Stern announces, "The Houston Rockets have traded the rights of Rudy Gay and Stromile Swift to the Memphis Grizzlies for Shane Battier." I was pretty much off my rocker for the next week...the Rockets will never amount to anything at least for next 10 to 15 years, the management is intentionally trying to lose or certifiably brain-dead, and the team really doesn't want to win. Everybody says "WIN - Now!" Yeah, right.


I watched a Battier a little a Duke, he wasn't a bad player...i didn't think he would play a long time in the NBA or even be an all-star, like a number of Duke players. But I watched him last year, and he fits perfect with this team.


1) ......................He doesn't need the ball to be effective or have to score.

2) We need him for the high powered guards/small forwards in the West, we can't expect T-Mac to guard Kobe, Melo, Ginobili, and etc.

Shane's defense may not be as great as some make it out to be, but it's better than Gay's....stop look at statistics....there are alot of players ahead of the likes of Bowen, Prince, and Artest in steals and block shots....but they all are among the best defensive players in the league.....Kirlenko who usually out blocks all three and sometimes gets a few steal is not in the same league with those three.

3) Our defense would slightly be little bit worse without Shane Battier, even though he's not great, he is very good defense. I think him and McGrady together does force the wing players on other teams into a number of bad shots and contested points.....by both being long, agile defenders. I thought

4) He's shots just aren't falling right now, but the worker and player he is....he will break out of it, as the season progresses.

5) He's a great role player in mode Fisher, Horry, Bowen, Cooper, Kerr, Mahorn, Rodman (before he became ultra great rebounder), Buchler, Prince (but I think he's becoming an all-star or close to it), and the list goes on. For the most part, role players aren't going to dominate on either end of the floor, maybe at times. But, very rarely. They're going after loose balls, contest most shots, play consistent defense, maybe rough the other team up,try to hit open shots, maybe provide little leadership, score few points, and maybe clutch shot or two down stretch and that's it.

Most of those players rarely score over 20 points, because that's not their job, if they get from 6 to 12 a game that's good.

For me personally, I didn't think Battier would average over 6 ppg, this year with influx of guards....but he has stayed above par. He shooting percentage could be higher, but the team as whole has been struggling this year.

 

I've said it before. This debate will never end because it all hinges on "what ifs." It will be a little clearer after a few year. We'll see IF the Rockets will win a championship with good contribution from Battier. We'll see IF Gay will become something more than a good role player. But it still won't settle the debate. It's like the debate about the Barkley trade, never settled.

Here's my 2 cents:

1. Battier has not been consistently playing well so far THIS season. Nobody on our team has been consistently good so far. That's expected because of the totally new system they are in. But you can't say that Battier was not a big part of LAST regular season's success.

2. Battier's trade value was very high. He was close to untouchable on the Memphis team. And he was apparently coveted by a lot of teams. Moreover, Swift's trade value could have been negative (i.e. getting rid of him was a good thing).

3. Battier was acquired not to be a star but to make our two stars and the team as a whole better. He should be evaluated by this.

4. And how would Gay make our two stars better? A lot of people are saying that Battier is not helping us to win now. I want to ask, how is Gay helping Memphis to win? Is the Grizzlies better off after the trade? Is Gay making Gasol better?

To me, the anti-Battier camp is banking on Gay's potential, because imho the present Gay is not better than Battier. So, we'll see.

 

gay is already shooting very and scoring very efficiently. you don't think having a guy who can finish in the lane, and on the break, and is a fairly good shooter already helps the other guys on this team?

 

When the trade was made, we were led by a defensive-minded coach.

Battier made sense at the time for that reason. He was a perfect fit for Van Gundy's coaching style.

If Adelman was the coach at the time of that draft, things likely would have played out in a different way.

In hindsight, the trade may not look as sensible but you just have to account for the different coaching philosophies between then and now.

 

Gay - 1 Player Win and 8 Player Losses last year.
Battier - 8 Player Wins and 1 Player Loss last year.

Let's do this again at the end of this year and see how it goes, OK.

 

gay, gasol miller, gasol out for most of year
battier, yao/mcgrady

edit, this like people comparing vince young's numbers to carr when vince was a rookie and carr a 5 year vet. battier's even older.

 

STFU, amigo. You are crying a river over milk that wasn't spilled. Rudy Gay isn't Jesus of Nazareth, and Stromile never panned out. We are better off with what we've got. Rudy would never have been in the 4th quarter of the first game of the season against the Lakers when Battier nailed that 3-ball to seal the game.

Please quit the feckless complaining.

 

Don't forget the block on Ben Gordon last year. That was a game winner too.

 

Are you guys serious?

Stromile Swift is a bum. He always has been, and always will be.

What has he done for ANY team?

Nothing.

Including him in the trade was actually fortunate that some team took him off our hands.

Is Rudy Gay good? Yes. Will he continue to develop and will be one of the better players in the league down the road? Yes.

But you gotta look at it objectively.

Gay had all the potential in the world going into that draft, but did the Rockets really have the time to wait on whether Rudy Gay panned out or not?

Keep in mind that the Rockets almost beat the Mavericks a couple of years ago. They had the pieces in tact. They decided to add the ultimate team player/glue guy to the team, as opposed to some rookie who 'might' be good 3 or 4 years down the road.

And by then, the twighlight of Yao's and T-Mac's years would have flown by.

Plus, with Rudy Gay, a player who commands the ball to be effective, how would it work out with T-Mac and Yao?

Shane Battier is an asset to this team. He can play 3 spots, and can guard just about anybody on the opposing team. And he's an effective 3 point shooter, word to last year.

Everytime the Rockets lose, people scream 'The sky is falling.' Play Francis more. What is Adelman doing? We miss JVG. Yao sucks, trade him. Trade T-Mac.

This board is great and all, but it's pathetic after every loss.

It's an 82 game season. The Rockets will be ok.

Geez

 

Nobody was complaining after we won 52 games last year.

 

Brings tears to my eyes.

 

Dumping Stromile was a positive.

Anyone that says "we were not gonna get Rudy G." Is being totally obtuse.

 

i was

 

My Major complaint about Battier is

I FRICKING TIRED OF THE D*MN FLOPPING!!!
Play Defense. . don't rely on the fricking flop

HE even got chuck Hayes flopping

I hate flopping

Taking a charge is one thing. . but floppy constantly is killig us
esp when you get called for the block or a no call and it is now 4-5

Rocket River

 

Perhaps I didn't know the situation well.

But is it possible that the Rockets management had already reached agreement with the Grizzlies that they would trade the #8 pick for Battier before they knew that Gay was still available at #8?

 

pardon if it's been said already, but I think the Griffin draft had the Rox especially nervous about the "big potential" aspect.

And based on Battier in Adelman's offense at this point, I can see why people are revisiting this, but do people think Gay would hve done anything other than warm a spot behind T-mac?

And I'd caution against that most-typical mistake: looking at the stats of a decent young player on a horrible (and I mean horrible) team.

It's ultimately water under the bridge in any case...

 

Player wins and losses measure things that an individual player does and attempts to determine how many wins or losses a single player is responsible for. Unless you are blaming Rudy Gay's turnovers, 2-15 nights, and getting lit up on defense on Gasol being out, then you're way off base.