Battier for Rudy Gay/Stromile is not paying dividends

ouch

 

And I love when people make assumptions, or don't even comprehend.

Did I defend the trade? No. I'm defending the attack on Shane, the ignorant ones who say he's useless.

The emphasis on ppg is pervasive, esp when discussing Shane. For those who totally discount Shane's play, they're either legally blind or intent on playing horse.


*

And as for the trade, only fools present hindsight as contemporaneous knowldege. Shane is worth more than most 8th picks. http://www.nba.com/history/draft_top13.html To expect him be worth more than all is delusional.

 

Not with Battier because the way Battier helps you in the regular seasoni is by playing with playoff intensity for 82 games which I commend him for. Unfortunately, Battier doesn't have another gear for the playoffs and since opposing players do have that extra gear, Battier production becomes worse in comparison.

As people have stated before, Battier is Ryan Bowen with a jump shot except he he can't shut down Nowitzki.

I agree with Gater, Battier is a 5th or 6th option on a contending team but he isn't a difference maker in the playoffs like almost all "elite" role players in this league are.

 

Daniel Gibson would be a good example of that kind of player. His rookie season wasnt anything to brag about but he turned in some incredible playoff performances.

 

You can find isolated case of a player putting up some big performances in the playoffs. Gibson started playing well at the right time, and it's carried over into this season.

But, I don't know if certain types of players (e.g. athletic wings that can create off the dribble) will improve in the playoffs more than other types of players. I think, by and large, how good you are in the post-season is dictated by how good you are in the regular season. I could be wrong. I think it would make for an interesting study.

 

Yeah, Battier can't stop a point guard I never woulda guessed.

 

What upsets me the most when in think of this event is the fact that I was sooo pleased Rudy Gay fell to us in the draft because some analyst said he could go #1. I was so upset when they traded his right AND Stromile for Battier and I'm still pissed till this day. I sure wish we could have a do-over.

 

I think that was sarcasm.

 

I think over the average of the league you may be right but there are definitely exceptions such as the Dream. His playoff averages are considerably higher than his regular season averages.

 

I'll admit it hurt when hearing the Rockets we're not keeping Gay,but after sleeping on it I saw the genius of getting Shane.Perhaps I rationalized it

Anyway Battier' worth is linked largely to how many titles we win while he's here.This,again is a guy that is more valuable,the better his team is.He knows all the nuances and has skills.More than a glue guy...a clutch player who changes possessions.Last year we had no bench and had the priviledge of having JVG as a coach.This year we have survived pretty well with guys learning this system against a brutal open.While I cringe at Gay's upside,the Rockets simply obtained the proven commodity...healthy,consistent with upside on a team of quality veterans.There was no risk....So,with perhaps a little trade tossed in we're ...chickee.Yao and Tracy' injuries concerns might shorten our window thus necessitating obtaining some one like Shane sooner.It was the smart..SAFE move.Rudy should be a fantastic plalyer in this League for many years...but at the moment I'll bet on Adelman,Yao,Tracy + to get a title THIS year or next.

Sorry for the rant, I just feel Shane will have a big one in his column soon.

 

Francis couldn't guard Baron. Why not let him go? Nor could Mike James. I mean he's a PG he should be able to stop Baron Davis. Hell Bruce Bowen can't do it. It's not that hard, all you have to do is stay in front of him and put a hand in his face and you have him on lock. He's not fast enough with his hands to dribble past you and he can't make a tough shot with your hand in his face. He's only one of the better PG's in the NBA because of luck. He doesn't deserve to be he's not good enough to burn anyone off the dribble, let alone 6 foot 8 small forwards.



The trade is most probably a bad trade in hindsight, but at the time, you were looking at HIGH potential vs. PROVEN talent. Not that the talent is LeBron James type of talent, but you knew what Shane Battier will bring every night. You didn't know what Gay would.

What if Rudy Gay was a bust? We would all be pretty pissed. I know he is not a bust but you don't know that on draft day. You have to go with what you think will be better for your team. The Rockets thought Battier would be good because he has proven what he can (and can't, for that matter) do on a nightly basis. T-Mac and Yao were getting older and you don't know if Rudy Gay will take 2-3 months to pan out or 2-3 years. That's the gamble they couldn't take in that position.

***I don't think anyone doubted that Rudy Gay has/had more potential than Battier. I also don't think anyone believes Rudy Gay will NOT be a better player than Battier.*** However, Battier brought to the table what was needed (3pt shooting, defense, smart game) and it was already proven. The Rockets feel they didn't have time to wait. That's the decision you have to live with. It's not like Battier sucks, well, other than the fact he can't guard Baron Davis. He's just having a tough time this season, I'm pretty sure he'll get back in rythym.

Plus Rudy Gay had the green light all season last season on a team with no pressure to succeed. Do you think if they were in playoff contention the whole season Rudy Gay would have played and therefore matured that much? I honestly don't think so, but that's my opinion. What I can guarantee you is Rudy Gay would not have played nor matured that much his rookie year on the Rockets squad under JVG. He would just start getting playing time now, maybe.

 

I am not going to completely defend the trade, BUT Rudy Gay's numbers are really decieving. If you look at Memphis's offensive system, its a knock off of the Suns and Warriors offense. There is NO restrictions in that offense. Players are allowed to do whatever the hell they want to out there. There is no defense involved. Therefore they get a ton of possessions to score and get shots up. I am not saying Rudy Gay is a talented player and could one day become an all star in the NBA, but he would not be as efficient for the Rockets, unless if he is willing to be a bench player or be a 3rd option. Rudy Gay gets a lot of points on fast breaks, and he is given the green light to shoot at all times. Anybody could get a lot of points that way. Moochie Norris's numbers might even look good in that kind of offense .


Battier, although not the most talented player, is similar to what Mario Elie was for the championship Rockets teams. He brings good, solid defense, toughness, and is a glue guy, and most importantly, a WINNER. He doesn't care for the stats, he does ANYTHING for the team to win. I'm not going to lie, Rudy Gay would be perfect to take over Tmac's role 5 years from now, but to win championships you need role players like Battier.

Showtime Lakers had Michael Cooper,
Celtics had Dennis Johnson,
Bad Boys Pistons had Dennis Rodman,
Bulls had Ron Harper
Rockets had Mario Elie
Lakers had Rick Fox
Pistons had Tayshaun Prince when he was strictly a defender
The Heat had James Posey
The Spurs have Bruce Bowen.

Those players play the same role Battier does for the Rockets. He guards the other teams best defenders, makes all the hustle plays, takes charges, plays help defense, and makes the best player on the other team WORK for his points. If that delivers championships, which that has historically done in the NBA, then I have no problem with Battier being here. But I will agree we should not have included the pick that was Kyle Lowry in the deal. But other than that, I can not say I disagree with the trade. Battier just needs to find his shot, which I am confident he will.

 

Agreed and I guess that was my point.

 

Welcome to the board and good post.

 

try 2nd round

 

I don’t think anyone disputes the fact that players like Battier are important to have on any team aspiring to win a championship, I just don’t think they are as hard to find as many here believe. Just look at the players you listed. What did their teams give up to acquire them? Cooper and Rodman were acquired by the Lakers and Pistons using 2nd and 3rd round draft picks. Harper, Elie, Fox, Bowen, and Posey were all signed cheap by their teams. Our very own Chuck Hayes was signed from the development league. None of those teams needed to give up nearly as much to acquire their “Battier” as the Rockets did.

If your team needs hard-working, hustling, defensive-minded players, with limited offensive talent and limited athleticism, there are many of these type of players available that don’t require you to have to give up a talent like Gay.

 

this team has way to much 1 dimensional players. especially in the STARTING UNIT rafer, battier, hayes....

 

Well Gay scored 21 tonight on 9-14 shooting. Stro had 16 points, 10 reb, and 4 blocks. Shane Battier gave you 4 point and 4 rebounds tonight.

Gay is obviously having a better season than Battier, but what's surprising is that Stro is having a slightly better season than both of our PFs even though he doesn't start.

Stro's stats:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3401

Hayes's stats:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4023

Scola's stats:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3653

Stro's stats are actually most similar to Battier's numbers

Shane's stats:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3516

For good measure here are Rudy Gay's stats:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/4136

I heard a rumor that the Grizzlies wanted to keep Battier and had offered Mike Miller first, but the Rockets wanted Batter and the Griz eventually gave in. I don't understand why the Rockets wouldn't take Miller. He even played with TMac in Orlando. It would be nice to have Mike Miller now. He had 18 points and 14 rebounds tonight.

Mike Miller's stats:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3404

 

It took you this long to finally figure this out.