Battier can be the Sensei, but Budinger is clearly the starter.

Nope, you are wrong.

If someone has a certain role, his stats won't automatically depressed. If Bud was such a good passer, his assist stats would be higher.

 

Thanks, please post more. It was very informative.

 

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Stats do not tell the whole story.....they rarely do...

Stats are an incomplete tool, so you are basing your understanding on incomplete information.

If you watched both of them play a lot, there is no way you could make the assumption that Battier is a better passer, he just does not have the same court vision as CBud.

Heck, who threw that alley oop to Courtney again?

CBud has much better passing instincts, and is a much better passer, he is just not asked to pass as much.

You lack of understanding that stats are incomplete information sheds light on why you are also so wrong about Lowry's assists vs Brooks though too.

Again, same position, different role.

I guess I assume most folks understand that on a basketball BBS.....and that is where I am wrong.

DD

 

Being a flashier passer doesn't make you a better passer. There's as much value in an entry pass to Yao as there is in an alley-oop.

 

Yep, and Chase makes that pass very well too, he is just not asked to do it as much as he comes in when Yao is out.

However, he has made it to Luis and Hill, and Hayes...so we know he can make it as well.

This is not to disparage Shane, he is a nice player and safe passer, just not a creative one with good vision.

DD

 

Not true. Battier may be a better offensive player than he is a defensive palyer.

 

Courtney Lee made an alley oop, so Bud is a better passer. Sure, whatever.

Not sure why you brought Lowry up, but Lowry is a better passer than Brooks. Sorry, it's true. Brooks is the better overall player, but Lowry is the better passer.

Sad that people keep letting biases get in the way of their analysis.

Look, I have no interest in getting into a huge argument where the same thing is repeated 1,000 times. We'll just have to disagree on this one and get back to the thread at hand.

 

Theres really nothing else to say.

There have been numerous quotes, articles, essays etc. on how Battiers value as a player goes beyond the box score.

You come out and say the opposite that you "don't buy it", directly challenging coaches, GMs, sports writers, etc. Its not even as if someone was trying to relate Battier to thier general comments in some broad connection, they were all specifically talking about HIM.

You are basically dismissing the opinions of all relative experts in the field, and want us to take you seriously? Sorry, but you come across as either stubborn, foolish, or just plain ignorant.

 

larvs8,

Arguing with stat junkies who don't understand anything behind the incomplete data that stats provide is a waste of time.

For them Ignorance is bliss.....or rather stats are bliss....same thing.

DD

 

WTF? Are you responding to the right person? I am in no way dismissing Battier's value. I completely agree that his value as a player and passer go beyond the box score. What I don't buy is that this whole idea of "roles" affects a players stats so much.

Re-read the the read, dude, and then perhaps address this post to someone else.

 

LOL, now you start attacking other people. Nice.

You just can't let anyone disagree with you, can you?

 

Exactly. Battier almost always makes the correct and smart pass. They aren't highlight reel passes, but they are the right passes.

 

Whom am I attacking exactly?

I do think folks who rely solely on stats are not very astute basketball analysts....and wallow in ignorance....doesn't mean it is you...does it?

Stats are only part of the equation, they are incomplete information.

People can disagree all they like, if they can back up their argument with any actual analysis, or reasoning, I might even change my mind.

But, you have failed to do that in this case, so, let me turn it around on you.

Why can't you let anyone disagree with you?

DD

 

People do need to agree to disagree at times and let things go.

I expressed my opinion. Mr. Clutch expressed his. Then we both moved on without any harsh exchanges.

If a debate carries on, it should be constructive. Otherwise, it just creates bad vibes and goes nowhere.

 

Maybe if we all joined hands and sang cumbayaa?

DD

 

Sorry, I thought this was you, I must of been mistaken.

 

Sigh.

I said I agreed to disagree with you.

 

Thanks. There's no reason it had to escalate with people attacking others. We're talking about the passing skills of our SFs for crying out loud. Neither is Larry Bird or LeBron James.

 

Battier's value does show up in ceratin ADVANCED stats, not the box score. Things like +/- and various defensive stats, Battier does very well in.

I don't disagree that his value goes beyond the box score. You attacked me on the box score, and I don't even disagree with you on that point.