Battier can be the Sensei, but Budinger is clearly the starter.

Actually looking at the offensive and defensive abilities of each, I am coming around more to the idea of Brooks + Lee as the combo you wanna start, and Lowry + Martin being a lethal bench duo to be the first subs in.

Lee is really looking like a find at this point. He can shoot, he is lockdown on D, and he doesn't make dumb decisions. What a Rocket!

Beyond that, I'm still in favor of Shane's D over Chase's O. The other thing I would like to see happen would be one of our backup PF's like Hill, Patterson, or even Hayes if he's improved offensively enough, pushing Scola for that starter's spot again. I've always thought that since day 1 Yao needed an athletic frontcourt mate to make up for his deficiencies, and while Scola was so much more than we could have hoped for offensively and from a consistency and heart standpoint, he still represents what to me are the same skills and weaknesses we see from Yao, health notwithstanding.

 

Does it really matter? I am happy we have both, they will be sharing the minutes. I am even more glad now that Ariza is gone, I think Battier/Budinger is a great defense/offense combination. I really like them both and their games. Who starts really does not matter, in my opinion.

 

It's one thing to be awful on offense and another to just not be very productive on offense. Fans often confuse the two. One hurts the team at all times and the other only hurts the team who can't score.

This team shouldnt be hurting to score, with or without budinger starting. I'm not sure if your assessment came mainly from preseason, but that's not telling of how things will be during the year. I'm sure bud's getting a much brigther green light to see what he can do and improve his confidence level. During the season his touches will be less, so his point production over battier won't be as large. Right now you basically have battier being rested and less involved because he's a vet with a secured spot, while Bud is still trying out in a way and needs to show what he has.

 

I don't see where you're getting that Budinger is a good passer. He averaged 1.2 assists last year and his assist ratio was 11.9. Battier averaged 2.4 assists and had a 22.7 assist ratio.

Battier was also 4th among SFs in pure point rating.

I'm not saying Bud is a bad passer, just that Battier is better.

 

Brooks-Lee-Bud would be an interesting combo.

I just don't see them ever benching Martin. And Brooks-Martin is just deadly on offense.

 

that Lee/brooks/bud backcourt is definitely a nice one...Lee's defense helps a TON, so i do think we'll see that consistently, especially since Brooks throws better alley oops than Lowry :grin:

 

You are not considering roles, this is one of those cases where stats totally screw the truth.

Budinger's job is to shoot when he is in there, he doesn't look for as many passes because he is the end of the chain on the offense, the guy designed to get open and shoot it.

Whereas Battier's role is to occassionally shoot it, but more often make the entry pass, or swing the ball.

Budinger is a much much much better passer, this is a case of the eyeballs being better than the stats.

DD

 

Shane Battier is to the Kevin Martin what Adam Everett was to Craig Biggio. He's an elite defensive player who can partially cover the significant defensive shortcomings of Martin to allow Martin to stay in the lineup and produce offensively.

 

i think we need to measure how good of a passer they are based on the outcome of the pass, not simply how safe it is or how much it looks like a PG's pass. Battier does a really good job of passing at the right moment and place. He'll pass to a post player when he sees they have the advantage, rather than just when he's "set". Improves the post player's effficieny greatly.

 

I guess the stats say otherwise. I just feel like Budinger has plus court vision and passing skills and is better in both areas.

You may be right.

 

Yea, I agree with that. And with Yao starting, Battier's type of passing skills are probably a better fit - certainly for Yao.

 

I like Battier, so not trying to say anything bad, and I have not looked this up, but I don't think Battier has ever averaged 4.7 assists.

 

Budinger's day is coming, just not right now. Another year of coming off the bench will do him wonders and to be honest, it's who plays the most minutes not who starts IMHO.

 

yeah i think that was his rebounding avg

 

Why in the world would you stack your offensive weapons in one unit and all your defensive ones in another? Thats just stupid.

If you put Budinger with the starting group, thats less shots for Brooks, Martin, Scola and Yao who are all effecient. If you argue that they get just as many shots, then Budinger shoots the same as Shane currently does, but with one quarter of the defense. Budinger is certainly for versatile offensively, but who cares if he is only taking those same 4 shots.

You take Budinger out the second unit, thats more shots for Hayes, Battier, Miller, Lowry who are all non effecient.

How good you are as a team is not the sum of the talent in your starting lineup. Basketball synergy and balance is just not that simple.

 

Shane's defense is a real asset and is important to frustrate the top wings, which cause trouble for opposing offensive units. Shane's offense is actually adequate. His role is to hit enough corner threes to keep the defense from collapsing in the paint. That allows the other starters to get their points. We don't need a starting lineup of just people who can score--we don't have enough shots in the starting lineup to spread around. We still need scorers on the second unit--this is the same logic that keeps Manu on the Spur's second unit. When Bud's defense gets within shouting distance of Shane's, it might be worthwhile to switch. I think he can do it if he learns some of the veteran tricks from Battier and if he moves his feet better. But until then, it's better for balance on the first and second team to keep Bud in the second unit.

 

Yeah, I looked at the wrong number, it's 2.4 apg.

 

That's about three "much's" too many and a "better" that doesn't belong.

 

I don't buy the roles excuse. If someone is good at something, it will show up in the stats.

 

Well you are wrong.

Battier and Budinger play the same position, but their roles are completely different on the floor.

Budinger is more in the Kevin Martin role, go look up his assists.

DD