[Basketball Prospectus] Rebuild? Discussion on the "Success Cycle"

How is it crap when your starting center is 6'6 and teams having lay up drills night in night out?

 

No, Grizzlies are building around Marc Gasol, Rudy Gay and Mike Conley.

 

By the way, like I have mentioned before, building around Kevin Martin will win you the same number of rings as tanking and drafting a bust. If we build around Martin, prepare years of 1st round exists (that if we make it there, given Martin's record being the top dog, it is doubtful) and we won't be in position to draft another Yao Ming and become legit contenders if we take that route.

 

And they are going NOWHERE because you don't build around borderline allstars like Gay and very good role players like Gasol and Conley.

 

I don't get it, you seem to want to have your cake and eat it too.

Either we trade for a defensive C and get better or we tank and get a lottery pick.

You say it's a no brainer to get a defensive C, but on the other hand you say this team is going no where. So which is it?

 

Morey does not agree. Or else he would not be trying to improve the team.

 

Oh I don't know, why not try someone like Hasheem who is a defensive C AND young.

 

I can see why the other posters stopped responding to you, I forfeit.

 

Cool, so they should trade them all for lottery picks right? I mean the perfect team with that strategy is the clippers. They've been tanking their entire history. Don't see them winning anything soon though.

 

Thabeet is not a defensive C, Thabeet is a really tall person trying to learn how to play basketball.

 

I'd say the team that traded THIS productive player...



for THIS high draft pick...



thought it went pretty well.

 

Did anyone ever tell you that only douchebag quotes himself?

 

Precisely, It was well known he only would play for the Lakers or a team of that nature. He was only drafted by the Hornets because they didn't want any of the players on the board. Instead, they wanted Vlade Divac. That trade was in place BEFORE THE DRAFT started, which means in essence Kobe was drafted by the Lakers.

Which means that at least 1 of a teams 2 star players is nearly almost always drafted by the team.

 

The only difference is that Presti has consistently landed the picks he's made which have developed into a great young nucleus. The terrible franchises you've listed have only selected busts after busts. Given the opportunity, do you think Morey would be more like the Thunder or Grizzlies?

"So you believe all that bull**** that was widely reported by every credible NBA source!??"

Uh, yeah truogoy, I do. Exactly what 'sources' or 'newspaper' do you have to backup your claim that he was fired for the basketball decisions he's made? You don't.. but you try to attack me because I actually have evidence to support what I'm saying? I guess I'd try to attack the source too if I didn't have one to refute it.

And the Roy cartilage argument is hilarious -- yes trugoy, I'm sure it was Pritchard's lone decision to bring back Roy and he deserves blame for it. I'm sure nobody else was involved in the decision and that Pritchard just messed it up. Oh. Wait.

http://tinyurl.com/275exo3

So much for that argument. Let me guess -- you're going to act shocked that I believe this "bull****" that a credible source is telling me.

Just so everyone knows, trugoy believes we're only two pieces from being a championship contender. No, not a superstar type player.. no, not even an Iguodala/Wallace type talent. trugoy says the only thing we need is another Dale Davis & Antontio Davis. Haha -- I'm done arguing with you.. your 'vision' for this team is as bad as the Grizzlies draft selections.

And FYI, the ONE time the Pacers made it to the NBA Finals, Reggie Miller wasn't their leading scorer. Oh, and also, Reggie Miller >>> Kevin Martin. But you're right -- Dale & Antonio Davis make us contenders!!!!!

Thanks for the laugh -- Merry Christmas!

 

There is no formula for building a champion - it's only the end result that matters.

And that end result is that you have to have 2-3 superstar level players with good role players or practically 5 all-stars if you don't have a super star.

How you get there is irrelevant.

San Antonio did it by tanking when they already had a decent team to get Duncan.

L.A. did it by blowing up a very decent team in order to get Kobe. They took a gamble that Kobe would be a supreme talent and he turned out to be just that. They got SHaq by trade and later Gasol as a birthday present

Houston did it by building around Hakeem for 10 years and having a very good player at every position - time has shown us that Horry, Cassell, Thorpe, and Maxwell were all near all-star level players. And the 2nd one by trade for a superstar.

The Celtics did it by building around Pierce and trading youth for vetern talent.

Miami did it with Wade and adding Shaq and then keeping wade and the free agency bonanza.

So draft, trade, free agency - it does not matter. All are a path. No team is the same really. No formula. It's not how you get there, just that you find a way to 2-3 stars and the right supporting roles.

If Yao and T-mac had stayed healthy, and we had surrounded them with the guys we have now, we'd be a champion, I have no doubt.

We don't have a star to build around - that should be our first goal, get that first star we can build around for 10 years

 

Exactly. It baffles me that people think we can actually build around Kevin Martin -- am I not watching the same Kevin Martin as everyone else? The same one whose never been able to lead his team to the playoffs? The only thing Kevin Martin has done in his career so far is score 20 a night on a bad team.

People are so scared of having a losing season that they'd rather cheer for mediocrity/#6-8th seed teams than have us actually build a legitimate roster that can compete for a championship.

 

By "nature" do you mean LA or NY market or a successful franchise? If it's the former, wouldn't that add to the argument against tanking? Even if we had a draft pick higher than 13, we would've risked a Rubio situation if we tried taking Kobe.

 

Yup - I like Martin a lot, but he is not a superstar. If he was, Sactown would not have parted with him so easily.

He's a shooter, a very good one. But he's no Reggie Miller either.

 

Was it really that big of a gamble? West got to see Kobe first hand work out against his top defenders, and got him by trading for the 13th pick.

 

If it wasn't a gamble, he wouldn't have been drafted 13th now would he?