Isn't 7 a game the rest of the way about what he needs to average 6.5 for the year? A high expectation and hope you don't bet too much on it happening. Mango ------------------ Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated!
I think by the trade deadline Mo will sport around 14ppg, 4.5-4.8rbg, .89bpg. At that point he'll probably pull a Scottie to make up for his inadequacies. Either way, noone's giving him the max next year. ------------------ It just goes to show how skewed our priorities are when Mo Taylor makes millions of dollars while some high school teacher, that can actually rebound, scrapes to make a living.
You are right on with 2 through 10. However, #1 is Mo's rebounding. 'nuff said ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
aelliott, I'm not talking about other threads. I'm talking about THIS thread. Come on aelloitt, you must see my point. All the posts in this thread were bashing Mo just for the sake of bashing him. I admit, it can be fun to vent a little frustration that way. I came in and said, "hey, we should be happy to have Mo", and then you started saying "well, really, I'm just bashing him because he doesn't fit into our future." Do I really have to quote from all 6 of your posts before my first post in this thread? OK, here goes: Post #1: What are you guys talking about? I've changed my mind and I now agree with the people that have been saying that Taylor's rebounding will improve. For proof, you need to look no further than tonights game. Taylor got 4 boards, which raised his rebounding average from 3.60 to 3.64. Sorry for doubting you Maurice, I stand corrected. I figure that was sarcasm. Still, no mention of Mo not fitting into the Rox future. Post #2: {some talk about Collier} Here's some points: -Taylor isn't a good rebounder and he never has been. . . -Taylor isn't a great offensive player. He does have some good offensive skills, but he's far from dominant. . . -Taylor isn't going to draw double teams on a consistent basis. . . . -Taylor doesn't really create any opportunities for teammates. . . . -Taylor gives you very little other than a few points. . . . -I've also hear the argument that we were a poor rebounding club in '94, so it doesn't matter if we rebound or not. . . . What I'd like to know is what are your expectations for Taylor? You keep saying that he'll get better, but I would really like to know what kind of numbers that you're expecting him to post. I just don't see how we can dedicate alot of minutes to a guy that gives you nothing more than 10-13 points per game. Still no mention of Mo not fitting into the Rox future, but a lot of Mo bashing. Post #3: alaskansnowman, Are you arguing that he doesn't know how to rebound or that he didn't want to rebound? Which is it? If you're trying to argue that he doesn't know how to rebound, then he's probably not going to learn. I'll say it again, I've can't ever remember a case where a guy that was a weak rebounder in college and in his first 3 years in the NBA and then became a good rebounder. If it were as simple as the coaching staff teaching a guy to rebound, then wouldn't Cato be a much better rebounder? Why is our coaching staff, so well suited to teach Taylor to rebound? What players have we ever taught to rebound? Hakeem and Ralph came into the league as dominant rebounders and Barkley,Thorpe and Willis were all very good rebounders before they were traded here. Even Harrington was the fourth leading rebounder in Georgetown history. If you're arguing that Taylor's whole problem was desire, then why hasn't he gotten any better since he's been here? Why can guys like Elton Brand and Dikembe Mutumbo manage to rebound even though they play on horrible teams? Why can Lamar Odom manage to pull in 8+ rebounds/game from the small forward spot? After all, he plays for the Clips. Sorry, but I don't buy either of those arguments. My personal opinion is that Taylor doesn't rebound because he's basically a finesse player. Despite his size, he doesn't really like to bang and he avoids contact. That's probably the reason that he rarely post up. No matter how much effort he puts into his rebounding, unless he's willing to get down and dirty under the boards, he's never going to be a good rebounder. Lots of Mo bashing, no mention of Mo fitting into the Rox future. Post #4: Thanos, To answer your question, no I don't think that Taylor could play SF on a consistent basis. The strength of his offensive game is that he handles that ball well and can take his man off the dribble and he's got good range on his shot. But all that is relative to other power forwards. At the small forward spot, he's got below average ball handling skills and below average range. Plus, defensively, he's never going to chase smaller quicker guys around the court. Not too much Mo bashing, but still no mention of Mo's future with the Rox. Post #5: That's a nice idea, but I'll ask again, can you name one time in the entire history of the NBA that a guy that was a weak rebounder in college and through his first 3 years in the league, suddenly became a good rebounder? Since when does talking about rebounding make a guy a good rebounder. Derrick Chevious said the he could "score on anybody, anyplace, anytime". But, you know what? He couldn't. Ok, I'll ask again, can you name one big man that our staff ever taught to rebound? Give me some history to back up your theory. No too much Mo bashing, but still, no mention of Mo's future with the Rox. Post #6: Well, Brian Grant was a great rebounder in college, so he doesn't fit the critera that I described. He averaged 9.2/game for his entire 4 year career at Xavier. Just for accuracy, he actually averaged 7.1 reb/game in his first 3 years (1285 rebounds in 182 games). Camby, was also a good rebounder at Temple, so no go on him either. No Mo bashing here at all! Still no mention of Mo's future with the Rox. There you have it. Six posts, most of them bashing Mo, and no mention of Mo's future with the Rox. I called you on it. So you say "Everyone realizes that Taylor is going to be here this year. Whether or not he is an improvement is debatable and it's also irrelivant to what we're discussing. We're discussing his place with the Rockets long term, not just this year. It's not whining, it's a fan discussion. That's what you do on message boards." You only started talking about the future after I called you on the Mo bashing. Spare me your excuses. You can't have it both ways. [This message has been edited by jamcracker (edited November 19, 2000).]
Sorry. I feel like I have flames of righteous indignation flowing through my fingers. It upsets me that the "Bash Mo" thread generated so many posts bashing Mo. I wish the Mo bashers would step up and apologize. The Rockets are better off with Mo than without him. We're all glad we have him, right? Why bash him?
Mo sucks and I don't think he good for future. Not many win teams have power forward with averages of 3, 4 rebounds per game. I realize we are going to get better, but I don't think we can win with power forward who average 3, 4 rebound per game because, er,..uh.., well no other win team have power forward with average rebound of 3, 4 rebound per game. AND don't tell me we will be first in history to be a deep playoff team with this kinda power forward. That is bullsheet! So the moral of the story is Mo sucks and no good fer future. Please let's keep him for this year only and say adios, thanks appreciate your hard arse work, especially on the boards, and get your millions upon millions somewhere else! Fore we reckon for someone better to come hither! ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!
Poor guy is upset that people don't agree with him so he feels the need to start with the name calling... that's weak and it really speaks to the credibility of your posts. You're calling people stupid and shortsighted for only waiting 3+ years to judge Mo Taylor's play. That's great, what, shall we wait till he friggin retires? When can I feel free to throw Mo Taylor into the Charles Smith, Kenny Norman ex-Clipper bin of rejects where he belongs. Hey, if someone is going to teach Mo Taylor how to rebound maybe someone should teach Kelvin Cato how to rebound too. Then next year we can potentially have something other than the weakest rebounding front court in all of basketball. ------------------ "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
jamcracker, you need to learn how to manage your expectations. I think that posts bashing Mo would be found abundance in a thread titled 'Bash Mo Here'. ------------------ It just goes to show how skewed our priorities are when Mo Taylor makes millions of dollars while some high school teacher, that can actually rebound, scrapes to make a living. ------ If Mo were half the power forward that Charles Barkely was, he'd be 3'2" and still board more than he does now.
You're right. When I see someone else quote that statement it looks like one of the dumbest things ever posted. I guess, what I meant was, I'm upset so many people were eagerly awaiting an opportunity to bash Mo. I wouldn't have been upset if the "bash mo" thread had generated 15 replies, or 35 or 40 replies, but 70 replies? I'm shocked that so many people took the opportunity to bash Mo. I'm shocked that we've all forgotten that we're lucky to have Mo.
grab some damn rebounds fool,that is all. ------------------ I'm not the type to eat it up but the type to hit it raw dog and seed it up.
Allright. Now I wanna bash Mo for a sec. I'm the ISO-man, remember. I've got ISO stats from nine games (I haven't posted the last three*). I'm missing the first game and the road laker game (and I couldn't bear to watch the last 1/4 of the POR loss). I've got Mo down for 37 ISOs in those eight games**. Some of the ISOs are just pure Mo ISOs where a guard throws the ball to Mo, who's already standing alone on the strong side. (or sometimes Mo even dribbles up the floor into a non-transition ISO set) The rest of the Mo ISOs start out with a 2 man game on the strong side (e.g. Francis and Mo) with some pick and roll type action and maybe some weakside movement. The rockets decide to abandon those options and Francis clears out, leaving Mo with the ISO. I've got the Rockets down for a 14/37 success rate on Mo ISOs. Thats only 37.8%. Not very good. I've said that Mo is a "good offensive player". Almost all of Mo's offense comes off isolations. He never posts up, he rarely cuts to the basket, he never comes around picks for jumpers, etc. If the ISO is the only way we can work Mo into the offense, and we're only successful on 37.8% of those plays... It looks like Mo isn't really contributing to the offense either. *I haven't posted the last 3 games worth of ISO stats because, as a programmer, I strenuously object to figuring all those stats out by hand, as I've been doing. I need to start entering my ISOmetrics into a SQL database or something so I can automate writing the game by game reports. I'd also be able to easily figure season ISOmetrics and player ISOmetrics or quarter by quarter ISOmetrics without having to do all the work by hand. I'll hope to get this done soon, but in the meantime I'm still keeping the stats, just not spending the time to post the reports. I wanna to automate the report generation ASAP. Any help? ** The distribution is funny: 8 vs Grizzlies, 2 vs Bucks, 5 vs Clips, 1 vs Suns, 7 vs Lakers, 3 vs Suns, 1 vs Portland, 7 vs Bulls, 3 vs Hornets. The distribution of Mo ISOs vs various teams ought to tell us something about how the Rockets react to different teams defense.
I totally agree w/ you... though I had to play w/ that quote. The Rockets are totally lucky... but sheez I still wish the guy would board. I bet the Rockets would trade a 17ppg, 5rpg Mo for a 11ppg, 12rpg Mo. Those boards would be the difference between Steve running towards the defensive glass vs. running towards his own basket. ------------------ It just goes to show how skewed our priorities are when Mo Taylor makes millions of dollars while some high school teacher, that can actually rebound, scrapes to make a living. ------ If Mo were half the power forward that Charles Barkely was, he'd be 3'2" and still board more than he does now.
Might speak to the credibility of yours. Go back and read the last sentence of your previous post (before mine). I don't want to get involved with name-calling with anyone. But don't think if you say things like you said about me that I won't defend myself. I almost look at him as a rookie FYI. No one cares or has any motivation on the Clippers. This is a totally different situation and environment. Base him on what he does here and not there. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Cmon guys, lets keep it civilized. This is a bash Mo thread, not a bash each other thread. It is ok to disagree with someone, but quite another to denounce someone's credibility. Lets keep everything in perspective, we all want the Rockets to win. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
Come on aelloitt, you must see my point. All the posts in this thread were bashing Mo just for the sake of bashing him. I admit, it can be fun to vent a little frustration that way. I came in and said, "hey, we should be happy to have Mo", and then you started saying "well, really, I'm just bashing him because he doesn't fit into our future." No, actually I have no clue as to your point. Everything I said about Taylor was accurate and it's the very reason he doesn't fit into the Rockets plan. I've made that point in other threads, and unlike some other folks, my opinions are ususally pretty consistent across threads. Are we lucky to have Taylor? I don't know. So far, he hasn't really improved the team over Kenny Thomas. Do you really think that if Kenny Thomas was getting Taylor's minutes that he couldn't put up 11 points, 4 boards, <1 steal, <1 assist per game? Sure, it's great to add depth, but I'd take Othella Harrington back over Taylor right now. Taylor doesn't fit in our long term plans, so what's the point of him being here for one year? ------------------
Sorry, aelliott, I didn't mean to single you out. Can we kiss and make up? I was just hoping that maybe one of the Mo bashers would stand up and say: "You know, we didn't have to sign Mo, and I'm glad we did." Maybe Kenny is better than Mo. Maybe Kenny should start. Whatever. I'm happy we managed to get anyone halfway-decent to play at the PF. I'd hate to see our PF rotation w/o Mo. Taylor doesn't fit in our long term plans, so what's the point of him being here for one year? Very simple. Like you said it's great to add depth. Depth can help win games. I want to win games. Furthermore, the depth provided by Mo *might* help us squeak into the playoffs. If money were no object, would you just cut Mo now, and let the rebuilding begin? Rebuilding is important, yes. Still no reason not to add Mo this year. Especially when we have a slight chance to sneak into the playoffs and an extra PF might make the difference.
If Mo Taylor averages 7 rebs a game or greater this year, I will personally... now listen close here folks... I'm being serious and this is how adamant I am about this... I will personally have Smeg shove his head up his own ass. Damn skippy. ------------------ -------------- Did you know? Derrick Chievous sucked. It's true. -- from the ClutchCity.net "Did You Know" sidebar
I think he would have to average 7.5-7.6 the rest of the year to get his average up to 7.0. If Mo can average 7.0 for the year, I will believe Smeg's story about CB4 and the cave. Mango ------------------ Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated!
