About the argument that he isn't in the right place at the right time...isn't that what makes a good rebounder, being at the right place at the right time? If Charles Barkley had waited for the ball to bounce where he was 5 inches below most of the other 4's, he would have averaged 3.64 per game too. On the other hand, what do you want for 2 mil, as long as Francis can pull 6 boards a game, do we need more than scoring from Taylor? ------------------
Great post aelliott. Couldn't have said it any better. For someone who will be a free agent next year, he is not off to a good start. Let me make this clear, I want Mo to succeed. Really, I do. I just don't think he is aggressive enough to improve. I would love to see him knock down a penetrating guard, throw an elbow to get a rebound, anything aggressive. A majority of his fouls are stupid reaching fouls. Trying to knock the ball loose. Or climbing the back of the player he didn't block out. We need a PF who rebounds, plays D as well as scores. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
I dont think Mo's as bad on defense as some of you all say... Yesterday I saw him get two blocks(which were NOT put in the box score for some reason), but they were clearly his blocks. And then, he drew a CRUCIAL charge towards the end of the game that I think fouled Cliff Robinson out. Now thas just 1 game, but this shows that he does have it in him. ------------------ da ability to focus attention on important things is a defining characteristic of intelligence - alaskanSnowman
ì´ll post this again since i think it´s quite fitting... Back when Mo was being courted and almost on his way to the Sonics, i read that some scouts believed that due to his weak rebounding, speed and nice offensive game, Mo could be better suited to play SF. I just want to hear everyone´s opinion on this one. And as far as my opinion on Mo´s rebounding prowess, i think it´s non-existant. And i certainly don´t see much room for improvement. Actually his reb per game will be lower this year than last season... ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true"
A desire to rebound. He seems to be enjoying himself on the court with the Rockets, and I'm sure he likes the feeling of actually winning a few games(something that never happened in LA). alaskansnowman, Are you arguing that he doesn't know how to rebound or that he didn't want to rebound? Which is it? If you're trying to argue that he doesn't know how to rebound, then he's probably not going to learn. I'll say it again, I've can't ever remember a case where a guy that was a weak rebounder in college and in his first 3 years in the NBA and then became a good rebounder. If it were as simple as the coaching staff teaching a guy to rebound, then wouldn't Cato be a much better rebounder? Why is our coaching staff, so well suited to teach Taylor to rebound? What players have we ever taught to rebound? Hakeem and Ralph came into the league as dominant rebounders and Barkley,Thorpe and Willis were all very good rebounders before they were traded here. Even Harrington was the fourth leading rebounder in Georgetown history. If you're arguing that Taylor's whole problem was desire, then why hasn't he gotten any better since he's been here? Why can guys like Elton Brand and Dikembe Mutumbo manage to rebound even though they play on horrible teams? Why can Lamar Odom manage to pull in 8+ rebounds/game from the small forward spot? After all, he plays for the Clips. Sorry, but I don't buy either of those arguments. My personal opinion is that Taylor doesn't rebound because he's basically a finesse player. Despite his size, he doesn't really like to bang and he avoids contact. That's probably the reason that he rarely post up. No matter how much effort he puts into his rebounding, unless he's willing to get down and dirty under the boards, he's never going to be a good rebounder. ------------------
Thanos, To answer your question, no I don't think that Taylor could play SF on a consistent basis. The strength of his offensive game is that he handles that ball well and can take his man off the dribble and he's got good range on his shot. But all that is relative to other power forwards. At the small forward spot, he's got below average ball handling skills and below average range. Plus, defensively, he's never going to chase smaller quicker guys around the court. ------------------
Where's the love people? Like Bob mentioned earlier, let's not forget that we are Rocket's fans here and that we want them to win. And as far as this rebounding situation goes: When I play bball, i either play really actively or really passively i.e. I either stand in one place most of the time not caring about the quality of my shots, my defense, and second chance opportunities, or I actually care about getting good shots off, playing good D, and hustling my ass off! I'm not as tall as my other friends, but when Im hustling and trying, I get those rebounds. So, how can you help a guy get more rebounds? If he has desire and the will to do it, he will (Sir Charles anyone!), otherwise he won't. ------------------
Are you arguing that he doesn't know how to rebound or that he didn't want to rebound? Which is it? -aelliot I'm arguing that he doesnt know how AND he didnt want to. NOW, Taylor seems to want to rebound, but he still doesnt know how to. That's where our coaching staff+practice comes in. If it were as simple as the coaching staff teaching a guy to rebound, then wouldn't Cato be a much better rebounder? Maybe Cato will be... we still havent seen enough of him this season. After all, he did say he was gonna lead the league in rebounding, which should at least indicate that he will be doing a decent job on the boards. Why is our coaching staff, so well suited to teach Taylor to rebound? -aelliot Isn't Larry Smith supposed to be a good big man instructor? Not to mention maybe CD will help him out too? ------------------ da ability to focus attention on important things is a defining characteristic of intelligence - alaskanSnowman
You know what? I tire of this debate. It´s ridiculous! We are making LAME excuses for a PF that CAN´T, WON´T or whatever, but the fact is that it´s insanity that this matter is even open to debate! We are making those excuses ONLY because he plays on our team! Suppose we had the chuckster here and a Clips fan showed up boasting how Mo would get the better of Barkley in a matchup! We would FLAME his ass from here to eternity on how Mo´s rebounding prowess (or the lack of it) make him a poor excuse for what is EXPECTED of a PF! Now excuse me if someone actually think that people are out of line when they expect their starting pf (who expects MAX, to booth) does not do what everyone EXPECTS a PF to do! name ONE starting PF who pulls fewer rebounds than Mo does with the minutes he has! It´s LUNACY to actually defend him! This has GOT to change! Stop the MADNESS! Okay. I had to get that out of my chest. Feel MUCH better now. ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true"
Taylor seems to want to rebound, but he still doesnt know how to. That's where our coaching staff+practice comes in. That's a nice idea, but I'll ask again, can you name one time in the entire history of the NBA that a guy that was a weak rebounder in college and through his first 3 years in the league, suddenly became a good rebounder? If not, then why should we think Taylor will? After all, he did say he was gonna lead the league in rebounding, which should at least indicate that he will be doing a decent job on the boards. Since when does talking about rebounding make a guy a good rebounder. Derrick Chevious said the he could "score on anybody, anyplace, anytime". But, you know what? He couldn't. Isn't Larry Smith supposed to be a good big man instructor? Not to mention maybe CD will help him out too? Ok, I'll ask again, can you name one big man that our staff ever taught to rebound? Give me some history to back up your theory. ------------------
Anything is up for debate. I honestly am very pleased with Mo right now, and if I had watched him every game and he played for the Clippers, I would still say that they had a very good PF. Mo never has said anything about the max. His agent did say that once OVER A YEAR AGO, but these are new times, in addition to the fact Mo never himself said anything. I'm willing to bet he does not think he'll be making the max. And for the record, rebounding alone isn't how you rate a player as good or bad. Had to get that off my chest. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
I'm assuming you thought of Taylor's 6.5 rebounds per game last year as being weak. Through Brian Grant's first 3 years, he averaged a total of 6.8 rebounds per game. Now he is an absolute monster on the glass with about 12 a game. There's your example. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Cat, nice try with Grant, he averaged 7 and 7.5 boards in his first 2 years (very respectible) and then that was brought down to 6.8 over the first 3 years by 5.9 in 96-97 due to an injury plaqued season, when he moved to Potland he averaged over 9 boards a game in 97-98 and 98-99 when his minutes jumped up (so it's not like it jumped up from 6.8 to 12 in 1 season). And this year he is playing his most minutes per game and hence the highest rebounding total. Bad Example Cat. Rebounding takes some skill but is mostly desire, and inparticular the desire to put your body on the line and in between the ball and your opponent. Mo just can't rebounding and although i wish he would improve and doubt it. Hate to say it but 6.5 boards a game from last year was the best Mo could board. ------------------ "It's incredible to see how he [Mobley] can beat his guy one-on-one every time. That is a tremendous talent. The combination of Steve and Cuttino, I think, is wonderful in the backcourt." --the Dream
So 7 is respectable but 6.5 isn't? ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
One more example I have: Marcus Camby. His first two years in the league he played over 30 minutes per game, and got 6.3 and 7.4 rebounds per game. He never in his whole career up until this year got over 7.8 for a season. Now he's averaging 12.2 and is 3rd in the NBA. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
I'm assuming you thought of Taylor's 6.5 rebounds per game last year as being weak. Through Brian Grant's first 3 years, he averaged a total of 6.8 rebounds per game. Now he is an absolute monster on the glass with about 12 a game. There's your example. Well, Brian Grant was a great rebounder in college, so he doesn't fit the critera that I described. He averaged 9.2/game for his entire 4 year career at Xavier. Just for accuracy, he actually averaged 7.1 reb/game in his first 3 years (1285 rebounds in 182 games). One more example I have: Marcus Camby. His first two years in the league he played over 30 minutes per game, and got 6.3 and 7.4 rebounds per game. He never in his whole career up until this year got over 7.8 for a season. Now he's averaging 12.2 and is 3rd in the NBA. Camby, was also a good rebounder at Temple, so no go on him either. ------------------
Cat, sorry, but your comparisons are way out of line. Both Grant and Camby had a drought of minutes, and that's why they had lower reb numbers. Every time they had the minutes the rebounds were there for the taking, and take them they did. Better luck next time. ------------------ "I have posted so much that what I say must be true"
Camby played at UMass where he was all everything. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
Go take a look at Camby's stats in his first and second years. He was playing almost the EXACT SAME minutes as he is now. So no, that is not out of line. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
In Camby's all-everything season at Massachusetts (not Temple) he averaged 8 rebounds per game. In Mo's last year at Michigan he averaged 7 rebounds per game. So is 1 rebound really that big a difference? I sure don't think so. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
