aelliott, He has to figure out how to stay out of foul trouble so he can stay in the game and raise his average to 4.0 Mango ------------------ Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated!
BobFinn...what is up with all the bashing on Mo Taylor? We did win tonight didnt we? I really dont think the Rockets got this guy for his defensive or rebounding ability. They got him for his offense and as another option for a scorer. Sure he has been foul prone the last few games but at least he is trying. I also recall that tonight he was the one who took the charge against Cliff Robinson to give him his 6th foul right after he was called for an offensive foul. I also would rather have him in there instead of "I make all the moves down in the paint and can't finish the layup to save the world" Kenny Thomas. He also kills me when he sits out at the arc and double clutches a 3 pointer only to have it bang off the rim. As far as the 2 million, I think it was a steal. Now should we give him the max...hell no and shouldn't be anywhere near it either. Get what we can from him this year and then see our options at the end of the year. ------------------ Rockets Season Ticket Holder [This message has been edited by cato13 (edited November 18, 2000).]
I don't want to go into how stupid some of you guys are acting, but all I'll say is I just hope you're prepared to look as stupid and shortsighted as those who bashed Collier for so long a couple of weeks ago. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Well, in order for Mo Taylor to rebound he'll have to lay some major elbows to the craniums of Steve and Mobley, cause them little buggers are everywhere. Is that what you want him to do, elbow his own teamates to pad his stats? ------------------
Don't include me in with these morons. I already said the same thing (see above). ------------------ Save our children from the TAAS test: TAAS test report card TAAS test fact sheet
Don't post anything bad about Taylor while his Agent Cat is around. Mango ------------------ Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated!
THE CAT: I surprisingly agree with you that all this Mo bashing is undeservedly premature. As far as Collier bashers looking "stupid and shortsighted", he still sucks and you're still the same little b**** you were a couple weeks ago. ------------------
Still playing that one hit wonder TheCat? (j/k) When will the apologists give up? Before we were all comforted by the b.s. "he played for the Clippers, he had no desire to rebound". Now these same people tell us to "wait, he'll learn how to rebound". Uhhhh... yeah. Some people can't sing. Some people can't dance. Mo Taylor can't rebound. It's not in him. It doesn't make him a bad person, just a bad power forward. <font face="tahoma" size="-1" color="336699"> I have the utmost respect for CD... but he will prove himself to be GOD if he can teach Mo how shots come off of a f@#$ing rim.</font> ------------------ "Everyone I know has a big but... come on Simone, let's talk about your but."
How bout some constructive criticism people. You wanna cite flaws in Mo's game, fine. But don't do that w/o A)offering solutions to his problems or B)also citing his strengths (and he does have some). I mean, has he or has he not come through for us at LEAST once this season? I can think of a number of times. ------------------
bob finn, maybe you werent watching the same game I was because its not like Mi isnt trying to get rebounds the ball just isnt bouncing his way. He is working his ass off on defense but the refs dont give him any love.Don't act like the guy has no desire he just isnt in the right place at the right time. ------------------ www.truebballfansite.homestead.com
You are one class act. Someone's a little bit of a sore loser here... ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
[bash]Mo[/bash] The dude needs to hang on to the rebounds that do come his way. I don't care how hard you're trying if you can't produce, then SIT. I mean seriously, I'd try my ass off out there, but I'd still suck. -------------------------- TheFreak, Did those same voters also rebound better than Mo? More than likely. ------------------ "I have a DREAM.........his name's Hakeem." DREAMer's Rocket Page
Tell me what is stupid about stating the obvious. Mo is a bad defender and he's a terrible rebounder. Mo Taylor and his agent have portrayed him as a class A free agent who is deserving of the max. Meanwhile, he can't stay out of foul trouble long enough to average 5 rebounds a game. This guy is flopping on his face so far. And let me tell you something from what I've seen regarding Mo Taylor and Jason Collier. Collier is clearly a better rebounder and defender, on that I think most everyone can easily agree. Collier has also displayed the same outside shooting range as Mo Taylor and the one big thing that Collier does better than Mo is run the floor. Collier is by no means fast but how many times do you see Collier hustling down the floor with his hand up for a pass while Mo is talking to the refs all the way down the floor. Taylor may well be more talented than Collier but it takes absolutely no talent to hustle while you're on the floor. Why don't you talk about why Mo Taylor is a great player right NOW instead of waiting for a game where he goes off for 20 pts and 8 rebs for you to grandstand about Mo Taylor like you did about Jason Collier after he had 1 good game. I don't call making a judgement on Mo Taylor after 3+ years in the league to be stupid and shortsighted but hey you're the expert on that. ------------------ "Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton
Of course not, he should let the PG's and SG's on our team outrebound him. They should be crashing the boards. They should be going into "the land of the giants" and risk injury, get the majority of the rebounds, and our PF should just stay outta the way. Somebody start a thread that says Mo Taylor should be moved to point guard since he can't rebound, and um... Francis should be moved to center and Mobley should be our PF. ------------------ -------------- Did you know? Derrick Chievous sucked. It's true. -- from the ClutchCity.net "Did You Know" sidebar
So are you saying that Mo's rebounding will end up at a respectable level? Respectable meaning over 7 rebs/game? If so Cat, I had your back on Collier (well, sorta), but I can't on this one. Mo Tay Annotcay Eboundray!! ------------------ -------------- Did you know? Derrick Chievous sucked. It's true. -- from the ClutchCity.net "Did You Know" sidebar
TPL, At this rate, he "hasn't been in the right place at the right time" for years (going back to his college days). This has to be the unluckiest human in the universe. I don't think you guys are getting the picture. It's not that Mo's not working his butt off on the court or that he doesn't try. The fact that he's 6-9 or 6-10, weighs about 250-265 lbs and cannot rebound to save his life is the problem. Let's put this in perspective. He's 6-9, plays 28 mpg, and averages almost as many personal fouls per game as rebounds. Or how about this : He's 6-9, plays 28 mpg, and averages more assists than offensive rebounds. And he doesn't even average single-digit assists to boot. Hmm... Moochie Norris, our backup point guard who averages almost half the minutes of Mo Tay averages more (albeit barely) offensive rebounds than Mo Tay. Or... heck, how about every guard on our team averages more offensive rebounds than Mo Tay. Throw Shandon in there, too. Lastly, that rebounding monster known as Walt Williams is outrebounding Mo Tay on the offensive glass. I love the fact that Mo Tay is giving us scoring and another option on offense, but most power forwards his size come with the "rebounding package" standard, not as an option. Is that too much to ask? This is where I wish I had DirecTV to watch the games. I hate going by stats alone, but I think this is one situation where stats do not lie. The man cannot/will not/will never? rebound. ------------------ -------------- Did you know? Derrick Chievous sucked. It's true. -- from the ClutchCity.net "Did You Know" sidebar
I've outlined the reasons I think Mo is good in a ton of threads. Ofensively he is the total package. Maybe as good as any PF in the game there. Defensively, he is not that bad, and I do notice he is hustling his butt off out there. He is making an effort, and he is running the floor. It's just he barely misses some rebounds that have to do with a lack of good positioning, etc. Things that IMO can be taught, and he can improve upon. I'm one of Collier's biggest supporters. But I am not convinced he is as good a defender as Mo, despite what you said. One final thing- did you ever read what I had to say regarding Collier? You have to be stupid or something. I always try to be the complete opposite of being stupid and shortsighted- I think everyone should be given time, good or bad production. The only reason I went off like that about Collier was because how all these other people called his career over after one game. Did I mean he's officially a good basketball player after a game? No. And of course they didn't agree. But I was trying to show them how stupid it is to label a player as a failure or success after a few games by giving them a dose of their own medicine. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited November 19, 2000).]
Oh great, the old Cat is back... the one that insults anyone that disagrees with him. Bad Cat! Bad Cat! Are you 4 years old? Sheez. By the way... your analogy is of course weak. Concerns about a kid coming out of GT vs. concerns about a kid that's been playing in the NBA are two different things. "Clippers, schmippers". His quote about not being expected to rebound are ridiculous. I doubt Francis ever thought he was supposed to rebound... he's just good, so he grabs the damn ball when he can. By the way... our guards crashing the boards isn't an option. The fast Rockets could have fast breaks if the damn guards weren't making up for the slack power forward. ------------------ "Everyone I know has a big but... come on Simone, let's talk about your but."
I don't want to go into how stupid some of you guys are acting, but all I'll say is I just hope you're prepared to look as stupid and shortsighted as those who bashed Collier for so long a couple of weeks ago. Cat, keep in mind that I've always been pro Collier since the draft (see http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/007415.html , http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000445.html). Regardless of that, Collier has absolutely nothing to do with Taylor's situation. Collier was a rookie that had never played a game in the NBA, while Taylor is starting his fourth year in the league. Taylor has a track record to base expectation off of. Here's some points: -Taylor isn't a good rebounder and he never has been. He didn't rebound at Michigan, he didn't rebound with the Clippers and he hasn't rebounded since he's been here. I keep hearing the argument that he will somehow learn to rebound here, but I can't think of a single player that was a poor rebounder through college and their first 3 years in the NBA, that suddenly (or gradually for that matter) learned to be a good rebounder. -Taylor isn't a great offensive player. He does have some good offensive skills, but he's far from dominant. He doesn't have a dominant,high percentage move that he can go to. He got all the shots he wanted with the Clippers and still averaged only 17ppg in his best year. Typically, a good offensive player on a bad team will post inflated numbers because they get alot of shots and the other team's defense isn't going to worry too much about their scoring (since the bad team is usually way behind). For example, look at the difference in Stoudamire's scoring once he left the Raptors. Once those players are on a team with decent talent, their numbers are going to go down. People were predicting Taylor's number's would go up and that's ridiculous. Olajuwon, Pippen, Barkley and Drexler's averages all went down when they joined a team with multiple offensive options and Taylor is no different. -Taylor isn't going to draw double teams on a consistent basis. First of all he's just not going to dominate consistenly enough to warrent that. Second, he's usually out on the perimeter and he'll settle for an outside shot, so why double him? Third, he' the third option on offense, so if I'm the opposition, I'm happy to have my opponent to rely on their third option on offense. I don't think you can ask more than that. -Taylor doesn't really create any opportunities for teammates. He doesn't postup for whatever reason (he can't, he doesn't like to, he forgot to...whatever) and he doesn't draw double teams. He does set up outside so as to not clog the lane, but you can accomplish the same thing by taking a Greg Ostertag and positioning him behind the 3 point line on the weak side. Have you notic ed any major improvement in Mobley or Francis' opportunities each game due to Taylor being on the floor with them? They're pretty much putting up the same numbers as last year. -Taylor gives you very little other than a few points. If he's not going to rebound, he's a below average defender, he averages less than 1 assist/game, .364 steals/game and .727 blocks/game. He has one single strength (scoring) and I'm not willing to dedicate a starting PF spot for a guy that is going to do nothing but be your #3 scorer. We've got too many other needs (low post threat, rebounder, shot blocker, low post defender) to. If you have Taylor starting then you'll need someone like the Hakeem of '94-'95 at the center spot to fill all of those holes. -I've also hear the argument that we were a poor rebounding club in '94, so it doesn't matter if we rebound or not. That's ridiculous. That team had the most dominant big man in the game on both offense and defense, plus we had a week side shot blocker in Horry. The '95 team also won the title as a 6th seed, but I don't expect to hear anybody arguing that they expect us to win the title if we're the 6th seed this year. There's always an exception to the rule, but those happen very infrequently. What I'd like to know is what are your expectations for Taylor? You keep saying that he'll get better, but I would really like to know what kind of numbers that you're expecting him to post. I just don't see how we can dedicate alot of minutes to a guy that gives you nothing more than 10-13 points per game. ------------------
Look, MO has 2 things here that he didn't have before. 1.)Guidance from a good coaching staff. In fact, they are already working with MO on this situation. 2.)A desire to rebound. He seems to be enjoying himself on the court with the Rockets, and I'm sure he likes the feeling of actually winning a few games(something that never happened in LA). What does this all mean?? Well, it means that sooner or later, Mo will improve his rebounding. I dont think he'll be a rebounding monster, but he'll be decent. He's already got the main characteristic needed for rebounding - desire. Now, all he's gotta do is learn how to. And we prolly have the best coaching staff to teach him. ------------------ da ability to focus attention on important things is a defining characteristic of intelligence - alaskanSnowman
