Give Steve a break. He is taking 20 shots per game and hitting a good percentage of his shots. Iverson takes 30 shots a game and his 38% of his shots. Steve is the only reason that we are a good team.
Hey Brando NOONE is asking you to stay, Im sure the Emrald city could use another moron fan, We have 2 billion NEW fans, Im sure we can afford to lose one! This is THE WORST Thread I have seen on here, and I have "lurked" since the begining of this site, I have seen some real crap, but this takes the cake!
WOW you really made your case there. I mean you first state, Mobley is as good or better than barry on D, then you "dare" me to prove you wrong. . . . . geez, I dont know if I want that dare. Are you going to double dog dare me. Heck it may take a triple dog dare. That might get me though. I think you should be the one proving to me that Mobley is the better defender, not the other way around. Go ahead and look at the stats if you want. . you may be suprised, but stats dont tell the whole story, you would have to watch both players play and evaluate how well they defend. So once you have watched a seattle game get back with me on your revelation on defense Barry plays better defense and team defense than mobley, because (note, I am going to back up what I say) He plays the passing lanes better, uses his height to stay infront of people. is a good post and perimiter defender, gets a lot of blocks for a Sg and averaged 2 steals a game, thats because of his team D and ability to play the passing lanes. He also has great anticipation, he is not nearly as athletic as Mobley but uses his, key word here, BASKETBALL KNOWLEDGE, to defend. . . .
Yeah, Steve should get a break. He is the best scorer on the team, he has been averaging 30 ppg, he is the #1 option. Without him they'd probably have 0 wins. That being said, the ball is not getting distributed properly in the offense. It is an inconsistent offense. Why is that? There are a number of possible reasons: 1) The offensive scheme isn't good. Rudy calls iso's all the time, so of course Steve isn't going to find anyone open. They never even set a pick to set Yao Ming open, even though this is what every other team with a skilled big man does! Look at the way Divac, Drobjnak (Seattle center) and Raef LaFrentz get open shots. Eddie, Mobley, Rice, Taylor and Yao are all very good set shooters, is it time to stop the iso's?? 2) Steve doesn't have another strong all-around player to back him up. Payton has Barry, McGrady has Hill, Pierce has Walker. These sidekicks have All-Star talent and they take off a lot of pressure, and they understand how to pass and run the offense. Even Marbury now has a healthy Penny, who can run the offense probably better than Marbury can. 3) Steve hasn't completely matured as a PG. I noticed during the Dallas game that Steve Nash does several things right- he doesn't pick up his dribble, he doesn't get caught in the air with nowhere to go, and he finds teammates who are set up and ready to shoot. Maybe Francis hasn't learned all these things yet. It's probably all of these things. Personally I wouldn't mind getting a Barry/Hill/Penny type player. Steve would finally be able to get some easy open shots!!
I think the constant references to Bibby as a true point guard, and aelliot's reminder that Bibby doesn't really have the assist numbers of a true point, drive home the fact that Francis really can't shoulder all the blame, all the time. Nor will moving him to the 2 necessarily solve our problems. Yeah, Francis doesn't have the best court vision and is prone to selfish play. But his seeming inability to distribute the ball, and more importantly, the ineffectiveness of our offense in general, really is a consequence of -- here we go again -- our lousy system. A system that's lousy because it creates few opportunities for easy baskets, doesn't get the ball to shooters in optimal position or with adequate time to make a good shot or make another pass, doesn't go inside enough, and too often ends in a rushed or contested perimeter shot. As for the Kings, if Bibby isn't picking up the assists, then other people on the team are. Last year, the Kings had nearly 6 more APG than us (23.9 vs. 18.1), and coincidentally 12 more PPG (104.6 vs. 92.3). So far in this young season, our situation has actually worsened (16.3 APG/90.6 PPG). Sacramento has paradoxically raised their APG (24.5) and dropped in PPG (100.2) -- this without Bibby. Regardless, if other guys are picking up the assists for the Kings besides Bibby, you have to give some credit to the system. Sure, Sacramento has great perimeter shooters, but last night didn't we shoot 57% from the arc? (Think how much worse this game could have been if the Rox and/or Suns (0%) 3FG% was more reasonable). And sure, Sacramento has a consistent post threat, but last night weren't Taylor, Yao, and Rice having success down low? Maybe last night didn't reflect that in general, we have inconsistent perimeter shooting, and no post presence. Which points more to personnel deficiencies than to shortcomings in our system. But as has been pointed out before, the personnel can't shoulder all the blame. If they're not expecting the ball, or get the ball in a suboptimal position, or have no time to shoot, or are forced to use their one-on-one skills to create their own shot -- then some of the blame has to go to the system. As for the lack of a consistent post threat as a source for easy assists, two comments. First, aren't a lot of the points made by great post players not necessarily made off an assist, but by the guy working his defender, backing him down, and making a move to get separation? Second, note that the Kings' front court has equal if not more APG than their back court. So far this year they have more than 12 APG vs. around 7 for the Rox. The Kings' front court passes out just as much as they receive the ball. Granted, their ability to pass out has to do with the fact that their post guys actually pose a threat that needs to get doubled, leaving guys open. But when our front court guys get the ball, there's no time for them to kick it back out. Again, some of the blame has to go to a system which shows little variety, and never initiates things down low. I've rambled, but the bottom line is this. Moving Francis to the 2 doesn't address the fact that we have a stagnant system. Getting a "true" point won't compensate for our lack of (at least so far) a true post threat. It will take some time for our post players to dominate. But right now we can address the problem of a crappy system. Have more cutters to the basket for cheap points. Go inside more, and not always initiate the offense by dribbling away from the outside. Run some back screens to free up guys down low. Have a system that's not so vulnerable to Steve having an off night, yet still geared to the personnel. One that makes it easier for our currently non-dominant front court to get points down low, and one that makes it easier for a guard with mediocre or poor court vision to get more assists. This doesn't mean though that there's nothing to be gained from trading Cat -- but that's another thread.
I agree with you Hamachi. I look at teams like Seattle and Detroit, who don't have great post players, and I wonder why the Rockets can't develop a similar system.
Oh wow, you really convinced me with that. Of course, you still failed to mention a viable trade idea or at least name one available PG who would be a better option than Steve. Do you even watch these games? Every time Francis brings it down the floor, the first thing he usually does is pass the ball. Just because a player chooses to swing the ball or dribble in for a closer shot doesn't mean he isn't passing. When Francis shoots, most of the time he uses a screen to take a wide open shot or a crosses over his defender to create space. Francis doesn't take to the hole against multiple defenders nearly as often as you want to believe. So I call bull **** on your shoot first pass later analysis. Once again, I will take Rudy's side on this argument. I think the fact that he's a former pro, a current coach, and a 2 time champion makes him SLIGHTLY (sarcastic) more qualified at assesing the play of Francis. Read this article that was posted in another thread and if you aren't a stubborn jackass, it should change your mind. But alas, I believe you are a stubborn jackass and probably will say some crap like "Rudy doesn't know what he's talking about." http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45382 Oh, and **** you too!!!
Lets just see how the team does. The entire damn team not just Cat and the franchise. Oh I guess Steve is a pass first , shoot later type I never said I wanted to trade Steve, just move him up the 2 spot you jackass. Oh yeah, bringing it back to the old school....**** you Infinity + the number of times you rode Rudy's jock
I hate it when people can't figure out the difference between the "truth" (in other words, fact) and "opinion" (in other words, not fact).
I never said you wanted to trade Steve. I'm trying to tell you there isn't a PG that would do a better job available.
I hate the repetative rock hater threads....support your team, dammit. I bet u did during the champ years!
Whats all the B.S. albout Rock hater threads? If people hated the Rocks I am sure they would not be wasting time reading all the threads here. I would think people are just frustrated with ugly ball. I think Steve is the best and mabey by the middle-end of the season the Rocks will come together more and be the talk of the nba? On any account I see them making the playoffs, just so long as Steve is healthy. The perfect senario=Rockets make the playoffs and the Lakers dont. See that is called Rocket lover-Laker hater.
Only total idiots will ask for a trade idea to validate a diagnosis. Diagnosis is either right or wrong. It doesn't need a remedy to validate itself. Stupid!!! It's like saying "Ok, contrary to what we thought, this guy died from AIDS and not other virus, however, it's dumb to talk about what was wrong with this guy since we don't have solution for AIDS now!" It's also misleading to assert that Francis should be replaced by a premier point guard to validate the notion of moving him to the 2. It's premature to tell that Tito or other tall guards will turn out to be solid pgs, but it's stupid to pretend that finding a solution for the PG position is unrealistic. A tall and decent pg to accompany SF doesn't take an eternity to find. As is with the derth of big men in the NBA, it doesn't mean it's stupid to talk about getting a quality center. I'll be happy with a tall pg averaging 10 points and 8 dimes a game. Pair that with Francis' 30 points and 5 assists we still have a hell of backcourt to begin with our front court talent(yes ironically I think Francis will be better off involving his teammates if he can legimitately score all he wants to without worrying about his teammates). Right now Francis is stuck in a halfa$$ed pg role. He's best at creating for the teammates with his scoring, but his pg role tells him to distribute the ball. He's caught in a situation in which he can't fully concentrate on his strength, scoring. He should go out on full force thinking about how to establish his dominant presence on offense, but his pg role forces him to be distracted and think about how to involve his teammates by play making. The bad thing is, Francis is not good at play making and has to think about involving other teammates when he makes his moves and that's distracting because he's not a real pg. A real pg makes his moves and still keeps an eye on every other player on the court. A real pg also make other players open by their on court decisions. It's not only about court vision but also mentality. Francis doesn's seem to be good at it. He's been asked to do something he's not particulary good at. He's a scorer, not a playmaker. I want Francis involve the offense with his scoring by establishing his presence and passing out from double teams, or off penetration. I want Francis to be be involved, getting easy baskets by a pg who can setting him up, so that he can be more on fire, score more points and reduce the chance of his high flying acrobatics. The Francis pilgrims fail to see that by playing his natural position with the right supporting cast, Francis may be able to achieve further greatness. The Rockets can employ other systems that doesn't emphsize play making ability of the point guard, such as the triangle offense. Moving SF to the 2 is a good idea for the situation but not an exclusive one. Judging from RT's ability to install a new offense so far, maybe moving SF to the 2 is more feasible. As for Mobley, no need to worry about trading quality for quality in this league. BTW. I like CD and RT's GM abilities. Just this, relying on CD and RT's roster management faithfully and blindly will make you another Les, who makes money from the Rockets prolly less than Rice and Lewis.
Man what a great post by hamachi. I feel inclined to start a thread just for this post but fear the backlash from veteran posters. It would have been titled, “Great Post lost in Bad Thread”. Just goes to show not all newbies are STUPID. Simply put the post covers several legitimate problems that the Rockets have. I don’t want to drive home the points already made so I’ll just add my 2cents and extend the observations. I think the starters play to many minutes but it is due to the fact we have no other choice. Starters (IMO) PG Steve 38.0/M.Norris 10.0 SG Cat 35.0/Hawkins 13.0 SF Rice 22.0/Thomas 18.0/Eddie 8.0/ PF MoT 27.0/Eddie 15.0/Thomas 6.0/ C Cato 24.0/Ming 18.0/MoT 4.0/Eddie 2.0 Now that the team is healthy we need to keep the rotation strait. NO MORE small ball. Steve should play all of his minutes at PG, this would help to reduce his minutes and make him more effective as a PG in the long run and also keep M.Norris off the court. Cat and Hawkins can man the 48 mins at SG with no problem. Cat should never be playing the SF position. Yes Rice should start over Thomas. Rice showed against the Suns that he deserves the mins so long as he gets help on defense and his shot is going in. Thomas needs to eliminate that hitch in his jumper and also not be on the court with MoT as much as possible. The two are counter productive together. One other thing, Thomas defense is not as good as some think. MoT is back and his size and sweet stroke is head and shoulders over both Eddie and Thomas. Now if only he can get better at defense, which against the suns he looked ok. Rebounding with MoT is the sore spot. Cato is/was playing great. I hope that the passing of his grandmother and him being out will not affect his new found aggression. Ming as we know is getting better with every game. As far as Boki and T.Morris these guys will have to wait for injuries or blow outs. They will at times have a minute or two. I really think that the rotation and the timing of the rotations have more to due with our problems than most understand. I know people want to see Ming, Boki, and T.Morris play more but they will just have to wait. Thomas hopefully will be traded sometime soon so that Boki and T.Morris can shore up the SF position. You know the more I think about it the more it seems to me that Kenny being gone would really improve the team. I know that some people don’t want to see him gone but with MoT. back, Eddie playing great defense, Rice hitting his shots (from the arc & post) Boki can shoot/drive and with Hawkins defense we don’t need him. Kenny does have some good games but it seems he has more bad games than good ones. I see him so much hold the ball, take his first step, spin, throw it on the glass just to see it skip off of the rim. His outside shot like I said is horrible. It looks like him and Moochie have the same hitch. And don’t forget his attitude. I am for him being traded and if not his minutes should be limited and let go after the season. We have enough ISO players
Good post Panda. As far as your analysis, it's pretty good. I think Francis could become a Gary Payton type point guard- lots of scoring with good assist numbers. But letting him turn into an offensive monster while getting a big 2 guard (or even someone like Snow in Philly) might be a smarter thing...
