GREAT POST NOMAR!!! Just to clarify -- I agree with Lopes entirely -- the ONLY thing is that it's dumb to say that publicly to the media with all of MLB's silly new rules about intentional beanballs, and their anti-speaking fanaticism on this issue. ------------------ "We must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom." --Kang
I don't think that this makes baseball stupid, but it makes it entertaining to read about stuff like that. Here's something to think about though. Let's say that it's 12-5 in the top of the ninth and Ricky Henderson is set to lead off. They pull Ricky and put some scrub in to avoid promised retaliation. The scrub strikes out and they get the other two guys out. Now Milwaukee comes in and scores eight with 2 outs and nobody on off of Mike Jackson and Billy Wagner (sorry Astros). Even though 9th inning comebacks like that really don't happen, the threat of retaliation would have a pretty direct effect on the outcome of the game. I kind of like unwritten rules and stuff because it helps for me to understand the reality of the game a little more from the players' perspective. Stories like this say a lot about what happens when you're in the game and not just a fan. It's like any other business, whether you are a waiter or a doctor, there are certain things about your profession that nobody knows except for the people that have done it. There are always unwritten rules that you follow and if you don't, you sometimes meet consequences. Baseball is just made so public. What about last year when I think that Don Nelson got so pissed at us because we were adding insult to the end of the game. Was it a Lanhi lay-up or am I way confused? I don't know, but all sports have some unwritten rules that added to the dimensions of the game. ------------------
IMO, baseball is played for 9 innings. Basketball is played for 48 minutes. (Barring extra-innings/overtime of course) If I were a coach, I would be pissed if my players were not playing 100% every minute of every game. These people are paid millions to play a game. At the very least, they can try their best to win. If you don't want Ricky Henderson to steal the base, @#$%^!* throw him out LOSER. ------------------ I cut all the heads off of a Hydra, and all I got was this StupidMoniker. "God is dead" - Friedrich Nietzsche ~1880 "Nietzshce is dead" - God 1900
In my opinion, unwritten rules do not promote etiquette as much as they are abused and overzealously enforced, especially in baseball. Let's imagine that in that Pirates/Astros game a few days ago, when the Astros were up 8-2 in the top of the 9th, Julio Lugo somehow got up to bat and he got a single with 2 outs. Then, since the pitcher wasn't holding him at first, Lugo steals second base. At that point, the manager and the pitcher go crazy, and the next batter, Jeff Bagwell, gets a pitch thrown at him for no reason at all except Lugo tried to get into scoring position, since the team obviously did not care about the game enough to hold him at first. Well, if Bagwell somehow got hit in the wrong place and come out with an injury, a lot of people would be extremely pissed off, to say the least, especially if the Pirates went on to win the game afterwards, because you know that would cause some manager his ass if that situation had happened. So by Lopes mouthing off publicly and saying that the next person to try that against his club is going to either get hit later, or one of his teammates will, he has pushed the envelope to say the least. There is a huge difference between upholding 'sportsmanship' and just having a huge stick up your ass. I believe Lopes falls into the latter category, as do a lot of idiots in baseball. Also, Nomar: As for calling me a stupid person, you are obviously entitled to your opinion, but you aren't really helping your case by insulting a person you don't even know, just because they have a belief that is contrary to yours. A matter of opinion I guess. ------------------ It's a simple yes or no question, Doctor. Would you eat the moon if it were made of ribs?
I agree. Nomar, that was low and completely unnecessary for this thread. He says baseball is stupid so you say that he is stupid. How juvenile. ------------------ The season's over, but the 'Stros have started. Guess I'm still gonna be nursing that keg...
This whole thread is stupid. Davey Lopes was an excellent player in his day and a tremendous base stealer. He knows a hell of a lot more baseball than you Red Chocolate and he certainly knows how the game should be played. The only reason Rickey is even playing this year is to break records. Do you think nobody knows that? Lopes has every right to be pissed off about a player stealing a base late in the game when everyone knows that player is only there to pad stats. Lopes has a very young team and he was obviously setting a tone for them. You can bet your ass that San Diego and every other team in the league is now aware that there will be consequences for showing up the Brewers in the future. To answer your stupid Lugo/Bagwell analogy, Lugo would never do it again. It's amazing how quickly players learn when teammates are getting hit because of something they did. ------------------ "I'm attempting to dream in a world where not many people dream any more." - "Rocket man" Brian Walker
Timing: Actually, I thought I knew more about baseball than Davey Lopes. My analogy isn't really stupid, because it is a possible scenario. The fact that it is considered okay to throw a 93 mph fastball at a guy's midsection just because the batter before him took an extra base just doesn't make sense. I understand Henderson is trying to break records, and this is considered okay by baseball's standards, but I think Lopes is a little excessive here. I don't really think this thread is stupid either, it's certainly open for debate, contrary to the belief of some baseball conservatives here, and I've already made my point that I was not using good judgement when I made the title of this post.
From what I read, the manager had a go sign on for Rickey. This could just be Rickey saying stuff, but if that's the case, why fault him for following signs. Fault the manager. As for the bunt to break up the no-hitter. That was a close game and the bunt could have made the difference in the game. Should that team team not try to win a game just because the other guy has a no-hitter going? All that being said, Rickey's steal was stupid. As mentioned, Lopez is trying to jump start his team. No one will remember this game in a few weeks anyways. ------------------
Red Chocolate did you read the entire article that you posted? Even Rickey Henderson seems to acknowledge that taking the base was wrong and that he respects Lopes. Henderson said he only ran because he was ordered to go to second, and understood why the Brewers were angry. "He came down, he's upset with his team down and frustrated that we were winning by six or seven runs. He said he was going to knock me down or something," Henderson said. "My team wanted me to go down to second base but he didn't like it. "He wanted to protect his team and to show that wasn't appreciated. I told him I know the game. If I would steal it on my own I wouldn't go down there and take the base. But that time I was sent. I'm not trying to show anybody up in that situation." Henderson didn't mind Lopes jawing at him, but didn't care for remarks made by reliever Ray King, who was pitching at the time. "I respect (Lopes) and he knows the game. But the pitcher was yakking and he had no good reason for what he was yakking about," Henderson said. "He's just a rookie, he doesn't know what he's talking about." ------------------ "I'm attempting to dream in a world where not many people dream any more." - "Rocket man" Brian Walker
From India. I dont get to watch much cricket anymore but I got my fill when India beat Paki in World Cup like two years ago ------------------
Yeah I read the article... and trust me, I completely understand these unwritten rules of baseball, and I know why people like Lopes take them seriously. However, after a while I just get fed up with all the pitchers throwing at batters. I mean, have you ever gotten hit with a 95 mph fastball? I haven't, but I know it hurts like a b****. I guess I have no respect for people who get easily irritated by actions that in the grand scheme of things, are meaningless. When I see a pitcher throw at a guy, I just immediately think, "MORON." Just because I think this, it doesn't mean that I don't understand baseball. I have just as much right to find fault with this system as you do to believe it is correct. These guys get paid millions of dollars, yet get pissed off enough to throw at the next batter if some guy takes a little too long to run the bases on a home run, something that's not even as bad as what Henderson did. Even if no one agrees with me, I still think that just because something is tradition, it doesn't mean it's inherently correct.
Well, when I see Barry Bonds and Ken Griffey Jr pose on home runs I automatically think they're morons and should get a fastball in the back. There is a way to play the game and there is a way not to play the game. These actions are not meaningless. Nobody will ever confuse the passion and hustle of Pete Rose with the arrogance of Barry Bonds. The way you play the game reflects on your respect for the game. In football, there are unsporstmanlike penalties for taunting and celebration. You can get a technical in basketball for taunting, celebration, and delays of game. Are those things meaningless actions too? I really don't think you do understand baseball. ------------------ "I'm attempting to dream in a world where not many people dream any more." - "Rocket man" Brian Walker
Just so you don't confuse the masses, Australia was the actual winner of the World Cup that year. ------------------ God help me, ...I was only nineteen. Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info [This message has been edited by davo (edited July 31, 2001).]
If you don't want to get drilled, then don't do something stupid, it's that simple. And usually, if a player is aiming for the batter, he'll slow the pitch down a little . . . but it still leaves a nasty bruise. ------------------ "We must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom." --Kang
Who cares about that?!?!?! We beat Paki in the round robin and thats all I care about ------------------
