http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/caple_jim/1435629.html <blockquote>If you don't think Barry Bonds should be the National League MVP, consider this stat: If you took away all of Barry's hits, he still would have a higher on-base percentage (.337) than American League MVP-candidate Alfonso Soriano (.335). ... </blockquote> WOW!
But under the formula a lot of people subscribe to, Bonds wouldn't be given the award if the Giants don't make the playoffs.
This is not stating anything new. I understand that a great deal of people consider team results when they vote for MVP. My quesiton here is, why? When a player has so little control over how well his team does, how can you hold it against the players when their teammates don't produce? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
This raises an age old debate...Should they have an MVP and a Player of the Year, like a Babe Ruth Award, or should they maintain it as is, and lead to more and more discussion about this very topic. As is, I think that valuable is an essential part of Most Valuable Player, but they have made exceptions before, most notably being Dawson for the last place Cubs...The argument of how much lower than last they would have finished without him is an interesting one, but nevertheless it sets a precedent. The other aspect of the possibility of a player of the year is that it would then remoce the anti-pitcher bias present in most MVP votes.
i agree with raven here. if you take arod away from the rangers does it make them worst than last, no, but it certainly makes them a lesser team. if you replaced tejada with rodriguez i guarantee you oakland would still lock up the west. could tejada lead the rangers out of the cellar? hell no. but if he wins the mvp will it be because he has zito, mulder, hudson, and lidle leading maybe the best team in baseball? absolutely. this isn't a team award, that would be a world series ring, the best player deserves it and he shouldn't be penalized if his team stinks. arod's numbers are friggin amazing. same for bonds even if he played for milwaukee. baseball is not like other sports in this way. arod and bonds are the clear runaway winners in both leagues.
I think part of being an MVP is being able to perform in clutch, pressure situations that help your team win. If you're season is pretty much over after the second month of the season, how much pressure can you really have? I will say its unfortunate his team sucks so bad, but until he can prove that he can perform at the same level in a pennant or wild card race, I don't think he deserves the MVP.
didn't they say the same thing when he left the Mariners? So, you're doing the inverse now...penalizing a player because he's on a good team. I definitely don't agree with that. I'm sorry Arod's team stinks so bad that they would suck even worse without him, but giving him the MVP because the Rangers pitching staff is pathetic doesn't seem relevant to me. In my opinion, the only claim Arod has to the MVP is he has better numbers than everyone else...that's it. So, if the MVP is just a statisical award, then yes he deserves it.
No, I don't think you have to be in the playoffs at all, but your team certainly has to at least be playing for something the last month or two of the season, which the Giants definitely are doing. The Rangers weren't playing for anything for more than half of the season! Talk about a no-pressure situation.
How is anybody penalizing A-Rod by not giving him the MVP award? Not winning the MVP isn't going to diminish what he has accomplished this season, or any other season. Ask A-Rod whether he would rather have the MVP or a shot at the World Series, and see what answer he gives you... The fact is that A-Rod plays on a bad team. True, he has done everything in his power to help his team win, but you can say that about five or six other guys who are on teams competing for playoff spots.
You are penalizing him in terms of the MVP race. His numbers are all better than Tejada and Soriano, so if he doesn't get the award it must be because he was penalized for SOMETHING, right? In this case, it is his team's poor play. And none of them have numbers better than A-Rod. Again, you are not giving reasons why it is fair to use team success for or against a player, you are just explaining that that is what you are doing. This is a discussion of why or not it should be done. You say that he shouldn't get the MVP because his team sucks. Well, why do you think that is relevant, considering that you already admitted he did everything in his power to help them win?
There already is such an award. MLB introduced the Henry Aaron Award a few years ago, and it is awarded to the batter in each league with the best offensive season. I think it was intended to be on par with the Cy Young Award, but has not gained even an ounce of popularity. It's not even listed on MLB's official awards page. Henry Aaron Award
Now you are opening a huge can of worms. Do you seriously want to start considering past performance and performance of a player's teams a year after they left? The MVP voting is about THIS season. How the Mariners did after he left has nothing to do with A-Rod's value this season. No one is penalizing someone for being on a good team. The argument is that team success should have no bearing on the MVP, so there should be no penalty either way when one is electing a most valuable player. No one would be giving A-Rod the MVP BECAUSE his team's pitching sucks. They would be giving A-Rod the MVP because, if you take his production and were to put it on ANY team in the AL, he would be the most valuable player. You would be giving him the MVP DESPITE his team's pitching, because there is nothing he can do about his teammates sucking it up. You say that giving him the MVP because his pitching staff is pathetic is not relevant. How is NOT giving it to him because of the very same pitching staff relevant?
With A-Rod the Rangers are: 4th Without A-Rod the Rangers are: ? With Soriano the Yankees are: 1st Without Soriano the Yankees are: ? With Tejada the Athletics are: 1st Without Tejada the Athletics are: ? I'm willing to bet the top one would be the same and the bottom two would be different. BTW, if Ichiro won it last year, robbing Giambi, Soriano should win it this year, robbing A-Rod and Tejada. But I have a feeling it was just the hype surrounding Ichiro that decided it last year, not the actual numbers. I find the whole A-Rod, Griffey, and Unit leaving Mariners discussion funny. Do the Mariners have a ring? Does one of those players have a ring? Alex Rodriguez SS TEX Signed Dec 2000 - 10 years/$252M 2001: $21.0M^ (+$10.0M signing bonus paid between 2001-5) 2002: $21.0M* 2003: $21.0M~ 2004: $21.0M~ 2005: $25.0M* 2006: $25.0M* 2007: $27.0M* 2008: $27.0M~ 2009: $27.0M~ 2010: $27.0M~ -Deferred salary: ^$5M *$4M ~$3M deferred at 3% to 2011-2020 -Can void deal after 2007, 8 or 9. Guaranteed salary increase for 2009&10 -Numurous bonuses for MVP awards, All Star appearances, Gold Glove etc. He's not getting as much money now as you think he is.... I dont think he's Hicks' MVP because then Hicks will have to open up his wallet if A-Rod wins it.
If the Rangers had Tejada instead of A-Rod: 4th If the A's had A-Rod instead of Tejada: 1st If the Rangers had Soriano instead of A-Rod: 4th If the Yankees had A-Rod instead of Soriano: 1st What have I just proven? Winning MVP is controlled almost as much by luck as it is talent, and I find that to be bull****.
A-Rod doesn't help his team as much as these guys. His team is in last. The others are in 1st. A-Rod is far and away the best player in the AL. But he isn't most valuable to his team. val·u·a·ble adj. Of great importance, use, or service: valuable information; valuable advice. A-Rod isn't of great importance to the Rangers. They suck with or without him.
Raven, You and I (along with others) will never agree on this, so we should agree to disagree. It is all about your philosophy on things. My philosophy is that baseball is a team sport and because it is a team sport, the MVP should be someone who helped their team be a winner. Yes, you do need to put up great stats to win the MVP award, but I think it sends a bad message when a player on a bad team wins this award. This isn't like Tiger Woods or the Williams sisters playing an individual sport...this is a TEAM sport and his team (talking about A-Rod's) sucks. What I find hilarious about all of this is that A-Rod "claimed" that he wanted to play for a winner. Yeah, right... Maybe it would be good for him to get the MVP, but while he is polishing it up all nice and shiny and everything, he will be like almost everyone else out there....on the sofa eating popcorn and watching the baseball playoffs on his TV. I am sure that Soriano or Tejada would take a World Series ring or better yet a World Series MVP over A-Rod's regular season MVP.
MVP - I define as - it's recess and you're the captain and you're choosing sides. Though I'd go with pitching first, let's assume you can't pick a pitcher. AL - I'd have to go with Arod...If you pick anyone else...I'd snicker. NL - Same for Barry.
Let's have a little comparison: Tejada: .303 average, 31 homers, 124 RBI, 195 total hits, 30 doubles, 348 OBP, .495 SLG, 81 strikeouts Rodriguez: .304 avg, 56 homers, 139 RBI, 184 hits, 26 doubles, .391 OBP, .630 SLG, 117 strikeouts Rodriguez has better power numbers, but other than that, Tejada has kept pace with him very well, including 36 less strikeouts in 37 more at bats. Now, let's be realistic...Nobody said life was fair. Is it fair to penalize A-Rod for playing on a crappy team? probably....Is it fair to penalize Tejada for being on a good team? most definitely. The fact is that players on last place teams (except for maybe a few exceptions) do not win MVP awards, simple as that, and don't expect it to change this year and any time soon
