Barkley: Camby Should Be Starting All-Star Center Over Yao

By the time I said that, the conversation had evolved into a debate between Yao and Camby's defensive styles and abilities.

I know its a long thread, but if you're not going to read it, please dont bother posting your comments.

 

Can you possibly get any dumber? I'd say no but after your previous posts, I don't have my hopes up.

First off, the media that gave Yao one vote is the same one that voted him off the All NBA teams behind Ben Wallace in 2006. The DPOY vote is a SUBJECTIVE REPRESENTATION of defensive abilities, NOT FACTS, WHICH ARE THE STATS I PROVIDED.

Secondly, even ignoring the above, ASSUMING DPOY votes tell who the better defensive player is, IT DOESN'T TELL THE MAGNITUDE BY WHICH A PLAYER IS BETTER. HOW MUCH is Camby better than Tim Duncan? 200 votes? That's just hilarious.

You were stupid enough to use DPOY votes to "prove" Camby is much better than Yao, a MAGNITUDE MEASURE, because you're an idiot.

I thought I'd highlighted that amply with my stock example, but apparently critical thinking need not be applied when arguing with you.

Then let's just put it this way. You are just an idiot who likes to bring points that have nothing to the discussion just for the sake of it. Does that sound about right?

The very same Camby that would allow the Warriors to go 4 on 5 on offense? Who wouldn't want that? Of course, all of this was based on the false speculation that the Warriors would prefer Camby over Yao, or that Camby would somehow make them a better team than a 2nd team All NBA player would.

I'd call yon an idiot, but I think you hear it so often it's intended effect (to offend) had worn off on you by now.

 

You really have a hole in your head. I did read most of your posts and quote many in my post#417. Do you want to eat your own words:"I'm shocked at how ignorant everyone here is. Barkley made a statement that was a debatable one. I know Yao has a better overall game."? Anyway, you won. I'm hopeless.

.

 

Defensive impact is more than just statistics.

If the voters felt yao was comparable to camby, he would've received some first place or second place votes. He got one single third place vote.

Thats a testament to the magnitude.

Calm down man. I proved your stock example was flawed. You were unaware that DPOY voting had 3 different classes (1st/2nd/3rd).

I pointed this out and I was nice about it. Even in defeat you act like a jerk.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Camby isnt the offensive liability that you make him out to be. He may not have a post game, but who on the warriors does. Also, he's capable of hitting the 15 ft jumper.

If you factor in the tempo that the GSW play, yao I dont know if Yao could play more than 20 min a game and be effective. Would that make them a better team?

Look man, you've been arguing this whole time based on false assumption.

I pointed this out in my last post to you.

I'm sorry you're such incapable of admitting you were wrong.

 

Here is the problem: you haven't provided a single argument that Camby has more impact on defense compared to Yao.

Are you really that stupid? I've explained to you twice already. Stock A is better than Stock B by an annual return 0f 0.1%. 99 analysts picked A over B. It's STILL ONLY 0.1% BETTER.

Just like I knew you were an idiot, I just didn't know how much

I was perfectly aware. What you said doesn't affect my argument in even the slightest way.

I'm sorry. You see, I have this sick little pleasure torturing the braindead... like you.

The only thing you've managed to defeat me on is being a disgrace to the human species.

Are you high? Marcus Camby is shooting 44% on the season, under 47% in his career. He shoot his jump shots (56% of all his attempts) at a eFG% of 38%. He is also completely incapable of creating his own shot (and I don't mean the relying on the guard to feed the post variety).

Anybody CAN shoot the 15 ft jumper. It doesn't anybody SHOULD.

Like I said already, Yao is a game changer. The Warriors will ADAPT TO HIM and play with a SUPERIOR style instead of forcing Yao to adapt.

I didn't make a single false assumption. Everything I posted WERE FACTS AND ANALYSIS BUILT UPON FACTS, unlike your pathetic squirming around the facts when you run out of arguments.

This isn't a matter of I'm right and you are wrong. This is a matter of I'm right and you're an idiot.

 

Forgot to mention Camby doesn't face remotely close to the type of D Yao faces.

 

There are 3 different DPOY votes. 1st, 2nd, 3rd place. From your analogy, I can only surmise that you're implying that Yao is only slightly behind Camby defensively. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

If that were the case, wouldnt he receive a lot of 2nd place votes and perhaps a few first place ones?

My original contention was that camby was a better fit for some teams (warriors) assuming they maintained their current style of play.

You assume (incorrectly) that I said if there were no restrictions, some teams would pick camby over yao.

Of course if they were to change their style, all teams would want yao.

But that wasnt my original contention. Do you understand?

Please refer to the above reply for an example of your false assumption.

This is a matter of you basing your entire argument on an incorrect assumption.

 

That would be very relevant if we were comparing Camby's offense vs Yao's.

But we're comparing their defenses.

 

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No you idiot. Nobody could explain this to your thick skull ANY better than I just did. DPOY votes DO NOT measure MAGNITUDE.

Stock A, 15.5% return, Stock B, 15.4% return, Stock C 15.3% return, Stock D, 15.2% return. GIVEN the returns, NO ANALYST should EVER pick Stock D over A, B or C. DESPITE THAT, Stock A is STILL, ONLY 0.3% better.

And in this stock example, the returns I gave you ARE FACTS, unlike your pathetic DPOY rant, WHICH ARE SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS. The only reason you'd think that number of first place votes proves HOW MUCH better Camby is because you're stupid.

That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, even for you. NBA GM's and coaches get paid to maximize the achievements and wins of the team. As they are all in their right mind, NONE are moronic enough to restrict themselves to an INFERIOR STYLE AND PLAYER just for the sake of it.

That's like saying Stock A and B have the same risk and everything else, the only difference is Stock A is in the telecom industry and returns 15% and Stock B is agriculture and return 8%, and you would pick Stock B if you want to pick agriculture.

Aside from the stupidity I pointed above, it's funny maintaining the same playing style is astoundingly missing from your original argument.

No, this is based on you are an idiot with NO ARGUMENT trying to save face.

 

YOU made the allegation that Camby is not THAT inept on O because he has a 15 footer. I proved you wrong.

P.S. Funny how that dropped from your argument as well.

 

damn it. let this topic DIE..

 

Well, 5 other players tied Yao for voting. And 22 players (not including camby) earned more votes.

Hate to tell you, but DPOY voting does measure magnitude.

Whats stupid is that parameters were given and you overlooked them. And after they were pointed out, you try to discredit them without realizing that the only reason they exist is to give plausibility to the contention.

Next time, just admit that you overlooked them. When you do that, you're able to keep your dignity.

Lets say you take a test in school and overlook the instructions. Subsequently, you fail b/c you overlooked the instructions. You can cry and rant all you want about how stupid or illogical the instructions are. But guess what? You still fail.

You're right..my original argument says

"The player a GM prefers probably depends on the structure of his team. I'm pretty sure that the GMs for phoenix, denver, and golden state would want camby."

I dont specifically say that the team must maintain its same style of, but its a logical assumption since i reference the team's structure as well as 3 relatively up-tempo teams. There would be no sense in alluding to its structure if it were subject to change. I do explicitly clarify later on though.

I'm sorry that this wasnt clear to you.

As I've stated long ago, I agree that if a team were to rebuild, yao would be an overwhelming favorite over almost everyone in the league to be the foundation.

Are you dense or something? I never said Camby's offense was better than Yao's. I never said it was close. All I said was that he isn't offensively inept and that a comparison of their offenses is irrelevant b/c yao's is unquestionably superior.

I dropped it from my argument b/c since the beginning, we've been talking about their defenses. I didnt see the need to include irrelevant information about their offenses.

 

I do have a major problem with your idea that Camby will fit into an uptempo offence. Camby isn't too unlike Big Ben two three years ago right now. I really don't think Big Ben will fit into Phoneix style offence to be honest. Denver is a fast offence but offensively he plays little in it.

 

i dunno what to tell you man...

i think that the ben wallace from a few years ago would be a good fit on a fast team. he hustled, played with a lot of energy, and played great defense. the problem would've been that he would be an offensive liability on the instances that a half-court offense was played. but with his rebounding ability, who knows?

however, camby is capable of being an offensive threat if thats what he's asked to do. remember, in his rookie year, he was averaging almost 15 ppg. and his career high is 37 pts. even now, he's averaging 10 ppg with 2 big-time scorers on his team. and honestly, he has a reliable jumper from around 15 ft.

 

Personally i doubt what your saying. The Pistons are clearly a half court offence, I didn't see Wallace struggle too much there. Any team with a decent PF low post scorer (ala Rasheed Wallace and Carmelo Anthony) and Jumpshooters (Chauncy Billups/ Richard Hamilton/ AI / JR Smith/ Linas Kleiza) can incorporate a defensive player in a half court offence. In fact I don't think Denver really has much of a problem in a half court offence. Wallace is neither a particularly speedy player to run up and down the court. I would say they would probably struggle in their current form and for Wallace at his peak. The only feasible centre that I can think of that will slide seamlessly into a run and gun offence is Dwight. Defensive players don't all fit in either, I don't see Artest fitting into a run and gun offence. The way he needs the ball for a certain period of time goes against the quick passing of phoneix.

I don't doubt Camby can probably fit into a run and gun offence like Phoneix in his younger days, but certainly not now. Most of his points come off put backs or open shots from AI.

 

I think you're severely underestimating Wallace's physical abilities. In his prime, he was an absolute beast.

A run and gun offense would facilitate open shots for camby. And you do realize that Nash and Camby came from the same draft class, right?