Barkley: Camby Should Be Starting All-Star Center Over Yao

Let's see, to paraphrase, you said Camby played in the playoffs, when it counted. I not only proved that Camby was not crucial to playoff success, I also proved why our lack of playoff success was due to playing tougher teams.

Then instead of addressing the issue, you went off on a nice little tangent on the Lakers, dodging the question.

Come and think of it, that's actually exactly what you are doing with this post. Funny how your replies keep getting shorter and shorter as your pathetic arguments run out.

Welcome to Idiotsville, population, you.

Let me ask you again, you brought in Denver's record and the Knicks' playoff success because of what...? Now if you actually had a point, such a simple question would have been answered already.

And you protest when I call you an idiot. Here's a little education for you. When we allow a lower FG%, i.e. we defend the opposing team, forcing them to shoot a lower percentage, in fact, one of the lowest in the league, it means that we are doing well on D. It means we are a good defensive team. Only an idiot like you with a hole in your hand would think that somehow it DOESN'T benefit my argument (well, actually, it is a fact).

You also tried to bullsh1t that we only allow fewer points because we play at a slower pace. That has also been thoroughly debunked by me two threads ago, which incidentally, is why you dropped it from your argument also.

 

You havent proved jack. How can you prove camby wasnt crucial to their playoff success?

What an idiotic thing to say.

And I never disputed that we played tougher teams. I love how you claim these little victories when you "prove" ideas that I never disagreed with.

You can "prove" that the earth is round if you want. I dont disagree with it.

Actually, I was at work and didnt want to spend too much time replying to your idiocy. But i have time now.

Yes, it is a simple question. Thats why its already been answered. I brought up Denver's record and the knicks playoff success b/c you brought up yao's winningness.

I realize that yao plays a greater role for the rockets than camby ever has with any team he's been on. But i never said camby's overall game is comparable to yao's. his offense is very weak. its his defense that i focus on.

it seems like you're trying to convince people that i think camby is a better overall player even though i have repeatedly denied this.

once again you intentionally mislead people. the stat that you used that i felt could be used for my benefit was points allowed. go back and read what i wrote. or dont. putting words in my mouth seems to be one of your favorite hobbies. I wouldnt want to deprive you of that.

whether you like it or not, we play a slow pace. therefore, both our points and our opponent's points will be lessened. as such, you cant prove that our opponent's decrease in points is the result of our defense ONLY.

to think that is to be shortsighted.

never did i say that a lower field goal % didnt help your argument. in fact, for future reference, i believe a lower field goal % is a testament to our overall team defense.

How did you debunk it? You think too highly of yourself. Fact of the matter is, there is no way you can disprove my contention. Just like I cant prove it to be a fact.

The best I can do is take known facts and make logical conclusions.

 

I claim these little victories? Wait a second, are you the idiot that brought up playoff success, records, etc? I didn't prove the earth is round because EVEN YOU didn't bring it up.

And how did I prove Camby wasn't crucial to playoff success? Well, Camby is now 0 for 6 in playoff series he started. In his best statistical seasons his team went out without a fizzle. It's not even as close as Yao where at least the Rockets went 7 games twice.

You do nothing but continue to make a mockery of yourself. I am highly disappointed that the human species is capable of spawn something as you.

No you idiot who can't read. I DIDN'T bring up Yao's winningness. I brought up Yao's defensive abilities. I addressed that in my last post. You are the idiot that brought up Denver's record and playoff success. I even showed you in exactly which post.

But then again, you're an idiot who can't read.

Even you can't possibly be this dense. FG% allowed, PPG against allowed, both of those are DEFENSIVE STATS. I'm asking you to PROVE that Camby is a much better defensive player than Yao. That is the pathetic notion you're trying to slip in isn't it?

I did read the drivel you posted. I even quoted them. Misquoting you? I quoted almost your entire posts. The real story here is that you are an idiot who's backpeddling, and using such tactics to avoid addressing the issue, which you lost before you began.

Let me show you again, since you can't read:


http://www.82games.com/0607/0607HOU3.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0607/0607DEN3.HTM

Houston:
Defensive Possessions: 91
Points Allowed: 92.2
Points Allowed per 100 Possessions: 101
Effective FG% Allowed: 46.6%

Denver:
Defensive Possessions: 97
Points Allowed: 103.8
Points Allowed per 100 Possessions: 106
Effective FG% Allowed: 49.9%


Even adjusted for the pace we are allow a MUCH BETTER 5 points a game per 100 possessions.

And misquoting? Wow. That's rich. I haven't found a single area where I misquoted you, but now I have found one where you are intentionally misquoting me.

I think our lower PPG allowed is a combination of our pace and defensive abilities, with pace being a smaller portion. Is our defensive abilities the ONLY factor? No. But then again, I haven't made such claim.

You, on the other hand, is the idiot that said we allow fewer points BECAUSE WE PLAY AT A SLOWER PACE.

What's funny though, is how I also showed that we were a better defensive team when Rudy was still coach, at a faster pace, and we also are a better defensive team with Rick as coach, at a faster pace. In either of those seasons, without JVG's slow approach, we are STILL A MUCH BETTER DEFENSIVE TEAM THAN CAMBY'S TEAM EVER WAS. Funny how they conveniently dropped out of your arguments again.

Oh wow. Then that drivel about we not being a better defensive team was because of what...?

Let me quote myself again:


Houston:
Points Allowed per 100 Possessions: 101
Effective FG% Allowed: 46.6%

Denver:
Points Allowed per 100 Possessions: 106
Effective FG% Allowed: 49.9%


We allow a lower FG% AS WELL AS points allowed per possessions, neither of which are directly affected by the pace with which we play. Both of those are FACTS. If we only allow fewer points because of the pace, you'd expect those FACTS to be in line with each other.

Wait, I get it. It's not because you are too stupid or you are too stupid to read. It's that you suck at math. You don't know 101 is lower than 106 and 46.6% is lower than 49.9%

Got it.

That's hilarious. Logical conclusion from know facts from the idiot who claims some GM's would take Camby over Yao? That's at best speculation and at worst lunacy.

 

This is my favorite post. MFW is an idioit.

 

So you think a player isnt crucial to a team if he isnt starting. So gary payton wasnt crucial with his late jumpers in the 06 finals? Cassell wasnt crucial in the 93-94 championships? Robert Horry in his last few championships?

I brought up camby's prior success b/c someone was talking about yao's success. It may not have been you (this thread is too long for me to search through), but it was mentioned.

So if it wasnt you, I apologize. But you cant discount my arguments just b/c you didnt bring up the initial topic.

Well, what was the voting in last year's defensive player of the year voting? Didnt camby win by a landslide?

True. And this shows that the rockets have better team defense than the nuggets do. Those stats dont translate to yao and camby's individual performances.

How is this illogical? Slower pace = fewer possessions. Fewer possessions = fewer points.

Pace may not be the only reason, but you cant refute its involvement.

When did I say we were an inferior defensive team? I've been talking more about the players themselves.

Your stats do prove the rockets are a better defensive team though. Funny thing is, i dont recall arguing otherwise. If i did, please quote me and I'll concede.

Do you have any stats that prove whether or not yao is a better defender than camby (which has been my topic all along).

Ok then. Please explain to me how Yao would fit better in Golden State's up-tempo than camby without changing the Warrior's current style of play.

 

I think the Warriors would kill to have Yao. Talk about all the open 3 point shots the Warriors are going to get.

And what exactly can Camby contribute in an up tempo game? 3 point shooting? What exactly would he trump Yao in in an uptempo system?

 

You must have quoted the wrong post. Two thousand people have said wekko368 is an idiot in this thread. Is it because You have called the name on the wrong poster, or because idiots always agree with the other idiots?

 

This is the exact reason the word idiot has been thrown around so much in this thread........

 

I'm looking for a couple of examples of where Camby did the same. As a matter of fact, I'm looking for a couple of examples of Camby not being on the bench when it counted during those Knicks playoff years.

It wasn't me. And I think you must have multiple personality disorder. On one hand you ask me to show you where you said Camby is the reason for Denver's record and the Knicks playoff success, on the other hand, you say your argument (Denver's record and Knicks playoff success) still applies; or maybe you just love to contradict yourself.

I got a joke for ya. Stock A and B, both with the same risk level. Stock A yields an annual return of 15.5% this year (only this year). Stock B yields an annual return of 15.4%. Both cost 30 bucks a share.

100 analysts were asked to pick which one they'd buy. 99 of the 100 said, rightfully, that they'd buy stock A.

Then an idiot comes along and said, look Stock A is sooooooooooo much better than Stock B, forget 30 bucks a share, let me pay $60 a share just so I get my hands on some.

Well guess what, you're that idiot that just got your hands on a bunch of Camby stock.

No of course not. I mean, the Rockets just because a top 3 defensive team the year after being the worst in the league because JVG's fairy godmother.

I didn't. But then again I never said a slower pace doesn't mean fewer possessions.

On the other hand I've also shown that we are far better DESPITE of our pace. I've also show the years without JVG, when we played at a much quicker pace, we were STILL FAR BETTER.

Post #373:

Oh the irony. I doubt you'd concede though. But wait, you were just bring up our defensive abilities just like you brought up Denver's and the New York's playoff records for nothing, right?

Oh boy, we are going in circles. You are recycling your arguments. After one of your arguments get shot down, go on to the next. After all of them get shot down, rinse and repeat.

Oh wow. Let's see, you know one thing I've noticed, Golden State is a pretty damn good outside shooting team. Boy, imagine all the open shots for a pretty good shooting team.

Oh, isn't Golden State a pretty lousy defensive team too? Yao certainly wouldn't help there.

This is my favourite post too. Let me guess, you are here to help your buddy wekko. You've got the stats to show that Houston is a lousy defensive team.

Believe it or not, I'm a pretty reasonable guy. I'm actually willing to admit I'm wrong when proven so. With such a strong argument, I'm sure you've actually got something to back your arguments, because god knows I'm not getting anything from wekko.

Oh wait, you're just talking out of your ass.

 

I'm not certain, but I recall that he played a very decent role in his finals appearance.

DPOY votes are broken down into 3 categories (1st, 2nd, and 3rd). Camby got 70 first place votes, 23 2nd place votes, and 12 third place votes. Yao got 1 third place vote.

So your analogy is improperly applied.

Sorry, I just reread that post and nowhere do i say the rockets are an inferior defensive team.

Please reread it yourself.

Stop being a drama queen and answer the question.

I'm recycling them b/c you havent shot them down...

How long do you think yao could last in the warriors' up-tempo game without forcing them to alter their game plan?

 

I still have the poster on Top Tinman......it is my most prized posession

 

He certainly did. He averaged 5.25 fouls a game in that series. Man, what would the Knicks do without those fouls.

I'm looking at that list, Bruce Bowen and Tim Duncan are well deserved 2nd and 3rd place getters. Add Stock B, C and D if you want, it doesn't change the argument.

I did read your post. First you ask what defensive stats prove Houston a top notch defensive team, IMPLYING that they are not one. Then you challenge the points per game allowed stat (that it was only because of slower pace), IMPLYING AGAIN that Houston is not a top notch defensive team.

Or perhaps you just like pointless rambling, bringing in useless stats that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

I think you are too stupid to keep track of your own argument. You DIDN'T ask a question, at least not the part you quoted.

I've done everything other than force you to bend over, proverbially. Only an idiot like you think you're actually winning the argument. Every single piece of your moronic rants as been shot down, torn apart and trampled on.

The hole in your head is causing you to ramble. Yao WON'T be adjusting to the Warrior's tempo. The Warriors will be adjusting to Yao. There ISN'T a single player on the Warriors that is good enough to for Donnie Nelson to cater to instead of Yao.

It's the same thing as what happened the year Yao was drafted. Houston used to be a guard oriented iso team. Yao came along and the Rockets became a half court team, and became a much better team in the process.

The Warriors run a fast break offense because they DON'T HAVE THE PIECES TO DO ANYTHING ELSE.

 

It changes the argument completely. In your stock comparison, one was slightly behind the other.

In the DPOY voting, if yao were slightly behind camby, he would've received a lot of 2nd place votes.

however, he received a total of 1 third place vote.

So in other words, you think you can read my mind b/c I ask a few questions and make some points?

Just b/c you make assumptions doesnt make them true statements.

Sorry bud, but you just lost the argument. My original contention was that if the warriors didnt change their up-tempo style, camby would be a better fit for them than yao would.

Thats what this entire argument has been about.

 

That's awesome, we're the like the Bards who tell the stories of Ye Old Kingdom of Sir Charles!

 

I wouldn't give a **** to what this ass-kisser says about anything. He is just jealous ...

 

wekko368, I see why so many people called you an idiot. By your logic, I can eaisly say the following:

If the warriors didn't need a center, Rafer would be a better fit for them than Yao would.
If the warriors did need a PG, Rafer would be a better fit for them than Yao would.
If wekko368 didn't change his mind, he would be an idiot.
if wekko368 did change his mind, he would be an idiot.
If 2 is greater than 1, 3 is greater than 2.
If white is black, black is white.
If square is round, earth is square.
If sun is square, earth is square.
If ......

BTW, it is my opinion. I'm basing my opinion on your statements, if i could prove it, it would be a fact...not an opinion.

.

 

sorry, should be:

"If 1 is greater than 2, 2 is greater than 3."

.

 

In retrospect, the only thing I would change is the number of teams that I think would select camby over yao for their current style of play. Its probably only the warriors. But originally I said that not every GM would pick yao over camby if they wanted to maintain their current game plan.

So while the number of teams I originally chose turned out to be far too many, the warriors still make the list.

Call me an idiot all you like. I made a statement using certain parameters. People chose to judge me based on my statements alone and ignored the parameters.

I'm sorry I try to structure my arguments using logic. If you believe this method is faulty, please advise a different approach to take.

 

I didn't call you an idiot. Barkley said "Camby should be starting All-Star Center over Yao", which implied that Camby has a better overall game. You said "I'm shocked at how ignorant everyone here is. Barkley made a statement that was a debatable one". Then you said "And i'm strictly talking about defense. I know yao has a better overall game". Do you have a clue?

.