Barkley: Camby Should Be Starting All-Star Center Over Yao

I would love for someone to try to change my mind with logical arguments.

But the only things that the posters seem to be doing are calling me an idiot and saying "yao's overall game is better." (cleverly avoiding the issue at hand)

 

Yeah, thats true.

I believed that people are generally smart. If presented with a sound argument, they would agree that it was logical.

The posters here proved me wrong.

 

Yes, that's great. But, obviously there is no one in the GARM who is going to change your mind with logical arguments. (especially since this is a highly illogical forum) But, it's truly a waste of thread topic to go back and forth in this exercise in tired futility.

 

Yeah, there are reasonable forums and there are forums like this, where people congregate simply to pat each other on the back on winning nights and call each other names on losing nights. Trying to start a logical debate here is seriously like winning in the Special Olympics.

 

Nope, you've changed my mind. Yao is a 7'6" stiff that nobody wants on their team. The only reasons the Rockets have him is that they can't get rid of him. He may be the worst player in NBA history to play center. All his doubters were right. Yao Ming makes Shawn Bradley look like Bill Russell.

 

Dude man, seriously. This is just ridiculous. There was not one time that he said anything you just claimed he argued for.

 

Just extrapolating, pal.

 

Yao for the best center Camby. Anthony+Yao will bring a ring for Nuggets.

 

And I think Nazr Muhammad outplayed Garnett so what's your point?

 

This part is just hilarious. Grasping every straw are we? It's actually funny that I had a post several weeks ago (on whether Houston will make the playoffs) addressing this exact topic.

Why does Denver have a better record than us? Let's see:

1. At the point after 37 games this, we had 10 back to back series, the highest in the league (yes, that means 20 out of our first 37 games came on back to backs)
2. At that point, we also played 21 games on the road, tied for highest in the league
3. Also at that point, we had already played Boston once, Detroit both times, New Orleans twice, Phoenix twice, San Antonio twice, Utah three times and Dallas three times.

See a trend? Put simply, we had BY FAR the toughest schedule on the road. On top of that, TMac missed 12 and half games AT THAT POINT. Wonder why we went on a roll afterwards? Because we played out most of our tough schedules and we are better than half the teams currently in the WC playoffs. The records indicate that.

Why have we never had playoff success? Well:

1. In our first shot, we played a team with only a measly 4 potential hall of famers on it, not to mention such pathetic players as Robert Horry or Derek Fisher, who I wouldn't have taken over any of our role players that year.
2. The second time, we played a 58 Dallas team to 7 games, in a year in which JVG got fined 100 big ones for pointing out the fact that Yao is getting screwed by the refs, in which we came within one Michael Finley strip of Jon Barry to have made it very very interest. I'm surprised it was as close as it was.

Last year was arguably the only season which we should have won. But you know what's funny, outside of Yao and TMac, we shot what, a collective 35%? Or was it lower?

And that was the year that Yao missed significant amount of games and never was the same (shot was off, conditioning was off, etc) after playing at an MVP level before he was injured. That was also the year that JVG totally got schooled by Jerry Sloan.

Your second point of drivel is even more hilarious. I gave credit where it's deserved. I give credit to JVG for his system as well as developing Yao as a defensive anchor. I also give credit to the subsequent good defensive players acquired over the years (Posey, Sura, Deke, Hayes, Battier, I know I'm forgetting some others). But you know what, BY FAR the biggest reason Houston is a top 3 defensive team is because of Yao.

Even in the first season he was drafted, before JVG, Houston had Cato who was a decent defensive player, that was it. Cat did make a concerted effort the second half of Yao's second season, but the first season he was pretty awful. Along with him we had EG, Steve, Moochie, Glenn Rice. The result? Second best defensive team in the league.

Those other players, along with those that can't play D (Pike, Francis, Rafer, Novak), as long as Yao is in there, Houston is a top team. Houston is a top defensive team BECAUSE OF YAO.

On the other hand, your pathetic attempt to credit Camby is just hilarious. Camby had 7 playoff series. 5 of them are one and outs. Another is the NBA Finals and a EC Finals. But noooooooooooo, those playoff success were not because of Patrick Ewing, Latrell Sprewell, Allan Houston or even Larry Johnson. Nooooooo, they were all because of 10.4/7.7 and 4.8/7 Marcus Camby.

In fact, statistically speaking, by far Camby's best years, playoffs or otherwise, were with Denver, all of which the team was one and out. Want me to draw a conclusion from that:

1. IF Camby was a key contributor to playoff success (which he isn't), he lost it
2. Using your pathetic simple brained "analysis" which ignores every factor (actually showing that you don't watch games), when Camby does well, his team stinks in the playoffs

How does that sound?

 

nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Antoine Walker is better than Lebron because Walker has won the NBA championship!

 

It sounds like you can say that camby has never helped his team to the top 5, but if i point out he's had more playoff success, you're quick to point that he was more of a role player.

Both are true, and neither can be argued.

I merely brought up his playoff success b/c you said he never helped his team to the top 5. Thats a misleading statement. My point is that i'd rather take playoff success over regular season sucess. And I never said he LED his team. I dont know if you're intentionally trying to be dense, but let me reiterate. Camby does not lead teams.

All those stats are nice, and yes, he's been to the finals and yao hasnt yet been there.

Yes we have had the toughest schedule so far. But we also have a tendency to play down to our opponent's level. And i know that yao is more important to the rockets than camby is to the nuggets. But the bottom line is, the nuggets have a better record right now. i know that'll eventually change, but as of right now, its a fact.

The simplest reason we didnt have playoff success in the yao era thus far is that our team hasnt ever been the best. whether it be inferior role players, inconsistent substitutions, or overrated stars, we have simply been outplayed.

Out of curiosity, by what statistic are the rockets a top-3 defensive team?

And yes, you do give credit to where its deserved...except in camby's case.

what conclusion can you draw from his dpoy of the year award?

Btw, we should've also won in 2004. We were leading the series 2-0.

And when I say I watch games, how can you say I dont? Thats about the most r****ded thing i've read so far.

How about you respond only to the things i say and not to the assumptions you think i make?

 

Malone and Payton were just a shell of their former selves. I'm surprised you stooped to that level to find a reason for the rockets' loss.

By that logic, the rockets should've had a lot of playoff success these past few years b/c we have 3 potential hall of famers on our roster.

I dont believe this...i'm just demonstrating your own misleading logic.

 

The NBA makes this distinction based on:

1. Field goal %
2. Points allowed per game
3. Field goals allowed in the paint

The Rockets have since Yao's arrival (with JVG) been in the top bracket

 

No wait, hold on a second. So you are saying that Marcus Camby is INCAPABLE of anchoring a team defensively, yet he is much better than Yao on defense? That's just hilarious. In other words, you are saying that Yao impacts an entire top 3 defensive team, yet Camby is much better at D? That's a good one. I got another one for you then. Tyson Chandler (who actually played pretty decent D last year too) is much better on D than Tim Duncan.

Bottom line Denver has better record than us? Well that's good to know. I mean, Dallas and Phoenix had better records than San Antonio last season too.

What's funny though, is that you claim that you never said Camby led a team and you claim that you never said Camby made his team top 5, yet here you are, trying to attribute Denver's better record to Camby. What's that called again? Oh yeah, contradiction.

Should have won in 2004. Shoulda coulda woulda. Bottom line is, we lost to a better team. Jason Terry tore us a new one. Nothing would have pleased more if the results were different. Guess what, it ain't. We lost to a better team.

Which stats show us a top defensive team in the league? Can't read can you? Let's see: FG% allowed, points allowed, among others.

And your denial of the role of Payton and Malone is just hilarious. Yes, they were only shells of their former selves, but you know what's funny? They also happen to be much better than our bench.

Let me remind you our bench that year:

Mo Taylor
Clarence Weatherspoon
Eric Piatkowski
Scott Padgett
Boki Nachbar
Torraye Braggs
Moochie Norris
Mark Jackson
Mike Wilks
Alton Ford
Charles Oakley
Adrian Griffin

We were actually desperate enough to bring Mark Jackson and Charles Oakley out of retirement, along with Charlie Ward the season after. Um yeah, tell me again how much Karla and Payton sucks and how we should have won that series?

 

Oh mine goodness. Wekko is still fighting. Unbelievable. I think the Rockets team needs your fighting spirit. It will surely help us to get out of the first round.

 

I cannot see why Denver deserves to have 3 all stars.

 

No, I never said that. Please stop making assumptions. He is perfectly capable of anchoring a team defensively.

I havent seen many hornets games, but from what I've seen from chandler, thats plausible.

Thats called "you making another assumption." When did I EVER say denver's better record was due to camby?

Seriously, the point of having a "quote" feature is so you can reply to what they actually said...not what you think they meant.

I brought this up b/c you said that last year was the only year we were expected to win. I'd say that after going up 2-0 in a series, you're expected to win.

Our points allowed will be lower simply b/c we play a slower game. Slower games means fewer possessions. Fewer possessions means fewer points.

They may have been effective, but at that point in their careers, they were role players. Although they are potential HOFers, i felt it was misleading on your part to describe their performance with the lakers as potential HOF performances (you didnt say it directly, but one can easily come to that conclusion based on your choice of words).

Do you describe deke's play as potential HOF play?

 

I'll put it this way.

Defensively:

Camby >> Yao

Offensively:

Yao >>>> Camby


Advantage: Yao

That's it.