Barack Obama says Democrats need to avoid being a 'buzzkill'

first three sentences were non-stupid.

 

Typical. Claim states' rights when it is convenient. Blame Biden when the states **** up.

 

Sorry. We'll use pronouns less and more proper nouns.

 

Well, I've always thought you were stupid, which is why this the first time I've responded to you in over a decade.

 

Hmm assume we are talking about crime rates in 2020 when Trump was president.

 

Well crime rose dramatically under Trump, not Biden.

Biden isn’t a dictator who can implement policy for all of the US. Red States and underperforming rural areas are failing due to their own policies.

 

My point is more about how financialized the economy has become since 08 with neither party reigning that in to prioritize productive growth. It's only now with Trumps pronounced Cold War-like break with China that we're reshoring and decoupling from neoLiberal free-market globalization policies.

How you gloss over the point in my post as "not really" shows how fruitless it is to have these discussions when people already have framed a mindset for their team.

The fact that politicians profit greatly from legal insider stock purchases and inflated real estate valuations kills any incentive for them to deal with urban problems such as increased homelessness, the squeeze among the middle class in the midst of ever growing income inequality, and the previous shift away from blue collar jobs while funneling displaced/underemployed workers to service/gig jobs that are way less stable and lack a true career track for 6 figure salaries. Historically low to zero interest rate policies contribute heavily into all three factors.

So yes, "Democrats tried" in blah blah blah (glib for glib). You win, have a cookie, and sleep well. Meanwhile "Republicans tried" to reduce the national debt (lies until the very end, but whatever) with Obama. But bwut bwut the Dummycrats stopped them!!

Left hand washes right hand. Lather, rinse, repeat while keeping the scoreboard endlessly close and Rome burns.

Meanwhile, they both gave the Fed unparalleled powers to influence and shape the economy because they were unelected, not in spite of it. This allowed both parties to have the veneer of blamelessness that was somewhat shattered when Trump demanded his choice of Fed chair, then successfully proceeded to bully and demean Powell in public when he tried to raise rates in response to economic weakness.

If you don't want to look a level deeper despite the explaination, that's fine.

"Not really" is Not Really a credible or even debatable response.

 

Likewise handing “out cookies” is pretty superficial as well and completely ignored the events.

Don’t assume I think Dems are without their blame. However hand waving away what the Democrats have tried to do and what their overall ideology is (using government to balance out the effects of capitalism) just seems ignorant. Just more of the “throw the baby out with the bath water” thinking….

Cheap money isn’t a problem in itself, what is the problem is not using that cheap to fund important things.

For whatever reason you can’t find the benefits of cheap money or how fiscal/monetary work together. Again, austerity post ‘08 was sabotage at worst and economic malpractice at best.

The Fed did what it should do… provide cheap money during a severe economic crisis. Congress didn’t do what it should have done. Where I blame Obama is focusing on ACA over a stimulus which ended up using all his political capital.

 

Whatever the Dems "tried to do", it continues to lose folk among the poorer non-degreed classes, white and minorities. I'm not calling for "defunding the Fed". A major rethink and public shift would be wise though.

Do you understand what that really means?

There's a big reason why wholesale banking has declined while investment banking has been making crazy profits. I suggest you look into the historical effects of financialization in an economy and at what stages it usually happens.

We've gotten away with cheap money while suppressing the interest rates, so that average Americans can take advantage of cheap gas, food, and entertainment. The flipside is that banks stopped lending or "risk taking" 6 figure digits to poorer or middle quality borrowers. Why lend someone 100k for opening up a non-franchised repair shop in Ohio at 3% when you can lend it to someone else with collateral at 2%? Buy/invest a house in a large coastal city...watch Number Go Up.

Meanwhile the national debt to GDP ratio has become incredibly sobering since 08. We're so far beyond debt in comprehension that the public isn't concerned about shedding weight, but rather looking for cheap hacks (MMT) like those electric rovers to soothe our aching joints.

Maybe it's already too late for a discussion. Austerity has become a taboo word for demand destruction, but we definitely went the opposite in the worst way possible, moral hazard.

Bailing people, lenders and corporations out with cheaper debt did not resolve the root causes that got us there in the first place. Without bankrupcies, debt consolidation/clearance, and the requisite world of hurt, we trained near an entire generation (14 years) that there was a "Fed put" and the government sugar daddy will bail everyone out. Everything bubble leads to everything...

Cheap money doesn't solve problems if you engineer it to resolve behavioral issues. Again, this is tantamount to trickle down economics.

The Fed's mandate is to look over employment (which they don't always follow or accomplich), not helicopter drop money to banks->TBTF corporations->high cap corps with B-rated debt. The slippery slope over the years is a tragicomedy.

As frogs in a boiling pot, maybe the brain is the first to cook? We've all been fed a lie over the Fed's competence, stewardship or even academic credibility. The results are there if people want to check/confirm.

 

I won't argue that these folks vote against their own self interests...... We did the business friendly globalization thing.... but Obama was a Kenyon, Muslim, Communist. Now wokism is coming to turn your kids into a college educated, drag queen, abortionist.

Yea, there was an imbalance.

The lack of demand. Instead of directing a bunch of cheap money at things like bridges, fiber optics, highways, trains, ports, reservoirs, clean energy, etc. to directly creates jobs and build more productive infrastructure we went "business friendly" and it went overseas and into investment banking.

All that is more complicated than just "cheap money". Interest rates were low because growth was low domestically.

You are pretty much agreeing with me in that what we spend the money on matters. MMT/Keynesian/etc doesn't argue to waste money on stupid stuff but having the government playing a role in creating demand (kinda the Democrats thing). Unfortunately, that requires the President and Congress to be aligned.

I don't disagree about the way things ending up turned out to be a moral hazard, but that's a playing the results thing. I'd love to have a true third party but this is the reality and both sides aren't equal.

It's also to maintain price stability. I think you give too much blame to the Fed and not enough to Congress.

We also have plenty of US history without the Fed.

 

Dumbacrats always embarrass themselves

 

What's killing our country and democracy more than anything is the hypocrisy people spew out. for example when it was announced biden won and republicans were crying, I heard democrats saying "haha he is your president!", "why are they whining like that? they need to accept it!". I had to remind these short attention span folks all of the "not my president!", "resist!", "Russia got him in there" crap that was literally everywhere back in 2016.

Same thing with posts like this one. What were you saying in 2016 when hillary/dems were questioning the results or suggesting Russia hacked the election? None of yall were saying what you are now about republicans questioning elections. even when we know this country has a history of meddling in international elections, but of course they would not do anything at "home".

until people can be impartial and call out both sides fairly, we aren't getting anywhere. and from reading threads like this one and other political sections, it's clear to me we are not going to get there. it has gotten even worse thanks to the media being mostly skewed to one side, so those are the views they push and the mainstream masses incapable of critical thinking eat it up

an example of how dumb democrats have been with this entire thing...

I was watching the cbs morning news show earlier this week and they had a list of issues that voters found most pressing. the first two was the economy and I believe gas prices or inflation but I'll have to find the video to verify that. but what caught my attention was the fact they skipped over the third issue which was only 1-2% points off the second issue, and that third issue was crime. after crime there was a clear drop off.

The fact they skipped over the third issue crime, was not a surprise to me because crime is not an issue democrats want to discuss. even more, the cbs news show went to a different infographic to start talking about abortion which wasn't even one of the top 8 issues their poll had taken from participants (as in they got the top 8 based on how people responded).

they are still trying to play the abortion angle when that is not a "dinner table topic" and hardly moves the needle since most people are responsible, the rare cases of rape are mostly covered by states, and it affects Blacks the most by far so truthfully they really don't give AF. if anything, it may cause people to be more responsible if they live in a state that makes it difficult (although abortion due to rape should be allowed everywhere)

what matters is the economy, inflation, and crime. getting an abortion? no. even the ukraine war is a no, and in fact folks are grumbling about all the billions we send over there meanwhile folks are struggling to make ends meet here.

 

wait how are republicans siding with authoritarians when it was the democrats who pushed lockdowns and mandates? trump rushing a vaccine is one thing but the fact democrats tried to mandate that same vax everywhere or else you lose your job/can't travel/can't go to school was on another level. especially now with pfizer admitting it wasn't tested properly (something conspiracy theorists screamed but were censored). it's funny seeing folks try to talk down trump's fast tracking of it when they were the same ones silencing people who were against it. but I digress...

 

https://thefederalist.com/2022/10/20/we-need-to-stop-calling-ourselves-conservatives/

 

1. Everyone besides people in bubbled conservative media already knew that the vaccines were approved based on efficacy for reducing the probabilistic odds of severe life threatening symptoms. We all assumed in theory it might reduce speed. Months later when enough data was collected, studies showed that it did reduce infection rates but temporarily hence when the discussion of boosters started.

2. Why did I know this and you didn't? When the Pfizer rep told Congress that the vaccine wasn't approved based on efficacy of reducing infection rates people who weren't brainwashed with right wing propaganda already knew this. The conspiracy theorists are just dumbasses chasing their own tail.

3. Authoritarianism implies motives beyond such health and safety protocols. The fact that as soon as the threat of the virus was gone, the "authoritarians" lifted all restrictions kinda proves they weren't authoritarians. Authoritarians keep the power given to them even powers granted to them during emergency protocols. Real authoritarianisn are things like trying to bad drag queen shows, trying to ban abortion with no exceptions and imprisoning everyone involved. That is what people mean by actual authoritarianisn. There has never in the history of human civilization arise of authoritarianism based on government implanting pandemic restrictions and forcing vaccinations. It's a very child like view of what authoritarianism is.

 

I agree there are blatant hypocrasies on both sides, but you must try to be a little more honest about this. Hillary Clinton conceded the election... within 24 hours of said election, no less. Donald Trump to this day refuses to accept the results of his loss. How can you pretend they are even remotely similar, and then complain about hypocrisy with a straight face? It is tragic that you feel the need to manufacture false equivalence to make sense of your discomfort, and unfortunate that you don't see the irony in your invocation of hypocrisy.

 

1. You're just trying to rewrite history. The president was on video saying it'll stop infections. CDC director said the same thing earlier on. You had folks acting like they were immune after getting both their shots. Of course from the beginning it was the conspiracy theorist saying boosters would be needed and you won't be able to out vaccinate a coronavirus that will undoubtedly mutate to evade vaccines. I've been seeing people try to rewrite history the last 2.5 years almost and it's hilarious.

2. That's not what the media blasted at people before the vaccines. Again stop trying to rewrite history. Anytime people posted about this on social media before the vaccine came out they were called conspiracy theorist. One giant ass example is the menstrual cycle issue with woman that just popped up. people were saying this in april/may 2021 in various places but were shot down. the vaccines were "safe and effective". I work in healthcare and know people who were denied any coverage even after being mandated to take it by their employer. lucky for me I work in admin so don't enter hospitals much

3. Your paragraph right here highlights such a big problem. Always trying to make this some kind of partisan issue. If you think someone not being able to go to a government funded public university, or a job, etc., unless they take a vaccine is not authoritarian then it's a lost cause even continuing this, especially when you can't see how the issues you listed are not B/W. The only drag queen shows I heard that were banned were various libraries and public schools. What city/state has banned drag queen shows at adult venues?

And this banned abortion no exceptions thing is a lot of times BS. for example they say Alabama has abortions banned no exceptions on sites like the NY Times, yet if you actually go to AL's law code you see that's not true: https://law.justia.com/codes/alabama/2017/title-26/chapter-23b/section-26-23b-5/

Like I already said, abortion due to rape or a medical issue should be allowed but just for convenience? That sounds more elective to me. I personally don't like it since it's killing life but it's a choice someone literally needs to pay for out of pocket.

 

I doubt you would be happy if Democrats start letting people like Bernie take the reign and concentrate on economic solutions from the left.

Solving crime is the most propagandized bs there is. Crime is cyclical. No amount of change in how much law enforcement there is will prevent that cyclical nature of crime. When the economy is struggling crime increases when people aren't struggling as much there is less crime. If we didn't address crime at all in the paradigm of law enforcement and hypothetically inflation got better and the economy got stronger, watch a natural decrease in crime rates.

The problem with your narrative is you want these discussions on your conserve terms. Discuss crime? Oh I'm sure you'll love it when if liberals address crime by talking about wealth inequality and redistribution of wealth. You'll only accept a conversion about crime only if it involves more strength ing law enforcement. That's the only paradigm people like you care about when it comes to crime.

 

This is an op-ed from David Brooks that does raise some relavant points to this thread. He does point out that the Republicans are much better at weaving a compelling message to voters particulary and tie together several issues. The Democrats in general are very poor at doing this and my own opinion is that the Democrats are far more ideologically divided. Why there certainly ideologically differences among Republicans they seem willing to agree and work together. For example we see Glen Youngkin who distanced himself from Trump and stated several times the 2020 election was legitimately conducted and Biden won fairly campainging with Kari Lake who has made election denial a centerpiece of her campaign.
Not posting the whole piece but a few key points.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/20/opinion/midterms-republicans-surging.html
Why Republicans Are Surging
Democrats had a golden summer. The Dobbs decision led to a surge of voter registrations. Voters handed Democrats a string of sweet victories in unlikely places — Alaska and Kansas, and good news in upstate New York.

The momentum didn’t survive the fall.

Over the past month or so, there’s been a rumbling across the land, and the news is not good for Team Blue. In the latest New York Times/Siena College poll 49 percent of likely voters said they planned to vote for a Republican for Congress, and 45 percent said they planned to vote for a Democrat. Democrats held a one-point lead last month.

The poll contained some eye-popping numbers. Democrats were counting on abortion rights to be a big issue, gaining them broad support among female voters. It doesn’t seem to be working. Over the past month, the gender gap, which used to favor Democrats, has evaporated. In September, women who identified as independent voters favored Democrats by 14 points. Now they favor Republicans by 18 percentage points.

Republicans lead among independents overall by 10 points.

To understand how the parties think the campaign is going, look at where they are spending their money. As Henry Olsen noted in The Washington Post last week, Democrats are pouring money into House districts that should be safe — places that Joe Biden won by double digits in 2020. Politico’s election forecast, for example, now rates the races in California’s 13th District and Oregon’s Sixth District as tossups. Two years ago, according to Politico, he won those areas by 11 and 14 points.
...
It’s hard to win consistently if voters don’t trust you on the top issue. In a recent AP-NORC poll, voters trust Republicans to do a better job handling the economy, by 39 percent to 29 percent. Over the past two years, Democrats have tried to build a compelling economic platform by making massive federal investments in technology, infrastructure and child welfare. But those policies do not seem to be moving voters. As The Times’s Jim Tankersley has reported, Democratic candidates in competitive Senate races are barely talking about the $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan, which included direct payments to citizens.

I thought the child tax credit expansion would be massively popular and could help create a Democratic governing majority. It turned out to be less popular than many anticipated, and there was little hue and cry when it expired. Maybe voters have a built-in uneasiness about income redistribution and federal spending.

Democrats have a crime problem. More than three-quarters of voters say that violent crime is a major problem in the United States, according to a recent Politico/Morning Consult poll. Back in the 1990s, Bill Clinton and Joe Biden worked hard to give the Democrats credibility on this issue. Many Democrats have walked away from policies the party embraced then, often for good reasons. But they need to find another set of policies that will make the streets safer.
...
The Jan. 6 committee and the warnings about MAGA fascism didn’t change minds. That committee’s work has been morally and legally important. But Trump’s favorability rating is pretty much where it was at the committee’s first public hearing. In the Times poll, Trump is roughly tied with Biden in a theoretical 2024 rematch. According to Politico, less than 2 percent of broadcast TV spending in House races has been devoted to Jan. 6 ads.

It could be that voters are overwhelmed by immediate concerns, like food prices. It could be that voters have become so cynical and polarized that scandal and corruption just don’t move people much anymore. This year Herschel Walker set some kind of record for the most scandals in one political season. He is still in a competitive race with Senator Raphael Warnock in Georgia.

The Republicans may just have a clearer narrative. The Trumpified G.O.P. deserves to be a marginalized and disgraced force in American life. But I’ve been watching the campaign speeches by people like Kari Lake, the Republican candidate for governor in Arizona. G.O.P. candidates are telling a very clear class/culture/status war narrative in which common-sense Americans are being assaulted by elite progressives who let the homeless take over the streets, teach sex ed to 5-year-olds, manufacture fake news, run woke corporations, open the border and refuse to do anything about fentanyl deaths and the sorts of things that affect regular people.

In other words, candidates like Lake wrap a dozen different issues into one coherent class war story. And it seems to be working. In late July she was trailing her opponent by seven points. Now she’s up by about half a point.