Barack Obama says Democrats need to avoid being a 'buzzkill'

this isn't true. many democrats/liberals hang onto whatever someone on the news told them like gospel. it's dishonest to say only republicans do this with tucker and hannity. back when we were all in the office, I literally had coworkers come to me discussing what was on hayes or maddow the night before. folks take articles from NYT or opinion pieces from politi"fact" as if they're gospel as well.

and really, I think I'm one of the few here to see both perspectives. Like on my older account name back when Obama/McCain was running, I was getting into debates with posters like Trader Jorge who back then was a Hillary supporter because I was a huge Obama stan.

I've been at the bottom of the totem pole, lived in my car on the streets before working my way up, moved to supposed liberal areas where I was treated with more racism than in supposed racist areas like the south, been told I should think/vote a certain way because of my skin color even though it wasn't how I saw things. all of this changed my viewpoints over time. so it's both hilarious and sad to me to see how people react to disagreements here. I see a lot of entitlement and it enforces my rightful decision to breakaway from this one party/my side is better thinking I was groomed into believing.

but again, the fact you can't admit both sides have their favorite media figures that they hold onto their word like gospel shows me people like you truly don't care to work with the other side unless they agree with everything you say. you don't even care to ask why I decided not to vote for bernie. instead you just typecast like most democrats do and assume I voted trump. Not good!

 

I think the failure is with the voter here after everything that the Democrats have done this year and with covid to help the people here and she is still focusing on immigrants she just wants to have an issue with Democrats or just likes to be contrarian and even if she actually believes this why would she vote Republican when they have not done anything and will hurt her more if they regain power.

I am not saying all Democrats should be happy with the Democratic Party, but when you start saying stuff like immigrants are getting more help than citizens I can't take you seriously and there is really no message to reach that voter because she is hearing what she wants to hear.

That's my problem, blaming Democratic messaging some people have all the info right in front of them but choose to believe the talking point of their choice, we have a strain in the Democratic Party that just likes to stir **** up it was most evident with Biden and all the **** that was said about him during the primaries.

There are some in Democratic Party who make good money stirring **** up like this and target the people who will believe stuff like this and are kinda racist and that includes blacks who look down on immigrants.

 

Obviously everything does come down to the voter and that is the essence of a democracy (emphasis on small 'd'). This is one of the reasons why the Founders were very leery of direct democracy and created the system we have with things like the Electoral College.

The problem is that just saying well there are low info and low interest voters out there and that is on them is that this is about winning votes. In very close races with so much at stake there should be an effort to reach voters like that.

 

You’re right - I don’t care about your views because anyone who claims Trader Jorge was a Hillary supporter isn’t arguing in good faith or is a fool. That assertion alone makes everything else you say suspect.

 

I didn't say that voter was low info or low interest.

I am saying they are the type of Democrat who is not satisfied unless they get everything they want and when they are sought out by shows like these to spark a bit of controversy.

For the most part that type of voter is unreachable because they will just move the goalpost there is a certain strain of Democratic voter who is never satisfied just look at someone like Subatomic or Donny and shows like these love to have those types on and then focus on them to create some controversy.

I noticed you focused on that person as well.

 

Yes because what she was saying was surprising. FYI I think I saw @Commodore posted a tweet with her response on another thread.

She could just be a contrarian and she could've been specifically selected by CBS to do that but I doubt they singled her out to pass her off as a typical Democrat if they knew she was a contrarian. Also given recent polling on a variety of issues it doesn't seem like she is alone out there and as you note there are many who are nominally on the Democrat side who shares those views. If I recall rigth @CometsWin also said they were black and had similar views on immigration.

I would still chalk that up to low info as there is a lot of info about the impact of immigration on the economy and most show it's a net negative and aid to immigrants is a tiny amount compared to aid to either citizens or permanent residents of the US. It's these type of messages though that shoudl be countered.

Anyway to the main point of what Obama is saying I think match what you are saying. There is a strain of Democrat who is never satisfied, and I think that is "buzzkill" part of what he's saying. At the same time though need to reach those people lest they sit out the election or decide they are so unsatisfied they vote for a Jill Stein.

 

I am not saying they did this specifically I am saying they played it up, there is a lot of stuff said in these focus groups and they cut them up for clips.

We both watch Morning Joe, and they lean liberal, but they also love to focus on anything that can be construed as negative for Democrats so they can have discussions about it.

Any Democrat that is focusing on immigration I have to wonder about and the fact that they thought this is a n important Democratic talking point smells funny.

 

This was literally in 2007/2008. I remember the trader_jorge name being in threads posting about Hilary and talking **** about Obama. now I could have been mistaken on the username, maybe it was a close variation of it, but the fact you're using that little thing to say you don't care about my views/the rest of my post is exactly why the democrats are losing minorities. no one wants to deal with "progressive" white people who don't respect their views but want their vote. close minded!

edit: so took two minutes to look back to that time to refresh my memory and what a lot of it was is T_J urging republicans to vote for hillary, but obama would get threads like this

https://bbs.clutchfans.net/threads/obama-caught-lying-about-nafta.143946/

during the height of the primaries obama got the most negative threads. I dont remember hilary getting ones like these from t_j but I'm not gonna keep looking. just amazed you used that one thing to say I'm not arguing in good faith. big example of how dems suck esp when they have no argument. they'll find something petty

 

I will certainly accept the accusation of being perpetually "unsatisfied" but you are combining me with a much different type of voter.

First off, I've voted in every election since 2002 and by every definition, I am a reliable Democrat voter on the state and federal levels (locally, I have voted Republican in the past in judiciary elections and also for county judge). I have never voted third party because first-past-the-post voting means that third-party candidates have no realistic chance of winning. My "goalposts" have been quite consistent, although all of my viewpoints have evolved over the years.

I am fairly confident (rocketsjudoka can correct me if I'm wrong) that the type of voters he's predominantly referring to are low-information, low-interest voters that are predominantly "centrist/moderate" and switch parties largely on their perception of their economic prospects. There are certainly far left voters who vote third party, but statistically, they are insignificant compared to the centrist group. And because the centrist group is the one that plays "spoiler" in the current political environment, Democrats have no choice but to engage with them on their terms.

 

I'm sure TJ did post a ton of negative threads on Obama - he's been a right-wing troll here for at least 20 ****ing years. He floods this board with all kinds of hit pieces and nonsense. But if you look at his whole posting history, I'm quite confident you will find lots of anti-Hillary posts by him (especially around 2016).

If you want to be taken seriously, don't come to an argument with blatantly false claims. I don't care about your background - I care about your arguments and they've been seriously lacking from the outset.

 

I'm not talking about 2016 so not sure why youre bringing that up. I specifically said 2007/8 when obama and hilary were running in the primaries. t_j would create threads urging people to vote for hilary.

you're blind like the other democrats. continuing to lose us minorities with your pompous attitudes and disregard for the minority experience. and all because I misremembered what a poster exactly a poster said 17 years ago.

you claim my arguments are baseless. so my experience dealing with racism in liberal areas is baseless. got it. you are a trip. Obama would be disappointed with you right now

 

Yes I am primarily talking about low interest and low info voters. That is why a coherent and simple message is important as that is what can reach them.

Obama is talking about those but he's also addressing other Democrats who are reliable but makes messages that he thinks turns off voters like the above. Things like "Defund the Police". As in discussions with other posters yes there is legitimate anger and frustration at LE but this is the fine line we are walking. In order to make major reform of PD's whether it's making them smaller, making them more accountable, does require winning elections. Crime does get people's attention and at a time when there actually are rising crime rates including violent crime from what things were a few years ago it becomes an easy issue to exploit by the other side. In order to make the reforms that those on the "Defund the Police" side want saying "Defund the Police" doesn't help with a large portion of the electorate.

 

Obama would never have been stupid enough to push transgendering kids.

It's wildly unpopular and also relatively insignificant to the broader progressive agenda.

 

Ok let me break all this out for you

1) We are all strangers here

2) When we make anecdotal claims of personal experience, such claims are not verifiable.

3) To judge the authenticity/accuracy of anecdotes, we look at the person's posts as a whole.

4) When a person posts a legitimate whopper (i.e. TJ supported Hillary Clinton), it makes all of us (not just us nasty Democrats) legitimately distrustful of the person and any personal anecdotes they may be sharing.

If you truly believe that white Democrats are disregarding the minority experience, then you really haven't been paying attention. Do we get all the nuances right? Absolutely not, which is why there continues to be an effort to include minority voices within the party. So unless you're claiming people like Stacey Abrams, AOC, Corey Booker, Tammy Duckworth, and the numerous minority advocacy groups that endorse the Democrats are just "tokens," then your claim that white Democrats are disregarding minorities seems to be one of bad faith.

 

Thank you for this post and esp this paragraph because it exemplifies exactly what I was saying is wrong with democrats today. I literally just told you a few posts above I am a minority and experienced more racism moving to a really liberal area than the conservative ones. your response to that is to list some minority democrats and say there are advocacy groups who endorse the democrats. that's instead of saying "hey your experiences are valid and whatever happened shouldn't have". no you just start listing off some surface level BS. these aren't the things minorities are talking about at the bbq in 2022 let me tell you.

had only been on clutchfans a few months in 2007 so if I misremembered that poster's exact position 17 years ago because the birther movement was being pushed (I first read about it here when I just joined the first time and back then I thought it was BS) and used as a way to say vote for the other democratic primary candidate, then so what. to use that to disregard my own experiences as a minority with the democrats since that time is an example of why the democrats are losing big

Obama didnt even want to push gay marriage in fear of losing the Black vote

 

I can agree with that, I don't know what you would do in that situation to be fair you might just like to vent on here.

 

Yes but this is one that it isn't about Democrats pushing it. I've yet to see a single Democrat ad or fundraising appeal (and I get a lot of them) mentioning anything about Trans rights. You aren't seeing candidates inviting Lia Thomas to come and campaing with them or RuPaul on stage with Biden. This is an issue the Right is pushing and Democrats are at most playing defense on it.

 

Owning a business that's successful allows me to hire employees. You're too stupid to know that

 

Why do your parents hate you?

Actually I would too if I got ran out of the Army and my kid was a fake Muslim

 

Biden has a trans health secretary pushing his weird sexual hangups on children hard:

https://www.hhs.gov/about/leadership/rachel-levine.html

We are also seeing girls athletics at every level being infiltrated by biological males and Dem politicians either condoning it or applauding it.

Also biological males being allowed access to girls locker rooms and bathrooms.