I wasn't here when 9/11 happened so I don't know what Refman was posting then but he is still around and he is one of the better posters. His post are often very thoughtful and while I might not agree with him I respect his opinion and enjoy reading his post.
fine.. it might not have been refman but it was one of the 'mans' I think 'treeman' actually. There was a bunch of them, all chicken war hawks. all for 9/11 iraq.. sorry to call out refman.. back to the original point being that Barack Obama is the man.
LMFAO.. always have bigtexxx to keep it real... My only question to Bush and Obama (assuming we have done such a great job) is why did it take 10 years to find Bin Laden... kind of sad.
couple of notes about the use of waterboarding and how the GOP will surely try to take credit with their brutal techniques: "Mohammed did not discuss al-Kuwaiti while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He acknowledged knowing him many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic." http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/may/02/phone-call-by-kuwaiti-courier-led-to-bin-laden/
Are you even open to the possibility that the torture helped get to the truth when he was questioned using standard techniques? For example, if you are punished for exhibiting a behavior (e.g. lying), might you be more apt to tell the truth subsequent to that so you aren't punished again?
Sure maybe it has worked at some point or another in the history of time, but in this case torture did not lead to capture of bin laden. Just another example of failed policy of bush, utter failure. If only there was some kind of unjust war that could have distracted us for many years to profiteer from??.. oh wait I meant that big oil, cheney, halliburton could profit from. Having bin laden not captured was a benefit for war mongering,saudi arabia, and lining bush and co. pockets... Bush even said he wasn't interested in capturing bin laden! Now we know why:
I'm shocked that old Barry was able to make a decision. Some of the stories I'm hearing about what actually happened aren't too flattering.... some of the details are starting to emerge in the press...
No, becuase when you apply this theory to the fact pattern it very quickly becomes ridiculous: 1. KS Muhammad captured March 1, 2003. 2. KS Muhammad waterboarded/tortured in March-April; 2003 ~180 times - 3. KS Muhammad claims that he just said whatever they wanted him to say during this to get the torture to stop. No gov't sources claiim they received valuable intelligence from this. 4. Waterboarding of KSM stops after the first month or so of his captivity. 5. Waterboarding becomes a big scandal internally in teh Bush Administration around 2004, Goldmsith resigns, no recorded instances exist of it having occurred after 2003. 6. KS Muhammad transferred to Guantanamo in 2006. No torture/waterboarding permitted here. 7. KS Muhammad gives actionable intelligence on Bin Laden Courier/other topics during standard interrogation in Summer 2007, 4+ years after waterboarding had ceased both in his case and in general as a mat So does this seem like a likely scenario? Youur theory is that it was some sort of post-traumatic stress Kutcher-esuqe butterfly effect that means waterboarding doesn't work until over four years after the excruciating pain of waterboarding - which yielded no actionable intelligence - stopped. Does this strike you as a very likely possiblity? Or is there a simpler more obvious explanation - that torture didn't work, that torture causes bad information to be said in order to get torture to stop, and that standard interrogation worked - one that seems more likely?
yeah glad you are coming in with something of substance. Sounds like you are with the tear -rists.. Wait who would say something so ridiculous? so I'm gloating and you are unhappy we got bin laden? Wait you want the blood for oil game to continue? are you part of the pakistani military and miffed because your zillions in aid might dry? maybe you work for big oil? Maybe you are disappointed because your company won't be able to make as many body bags? you miss bin laden? sure sounds like it.. Maybe you think bin laden is just misunderstood and aw shucks he 'aint so bad' ?? N -plz GTFO
hilarious.. yeah go ahead and post that bigKKK ,right after we find those WMDs and OJ finds the real killers!1!!!1! HO HO HO
I haven't read anything that suggests this. I read that they caught Hassan Ghul in Iraq in 2004, he admitted to knowing the courier. then they questioned Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Faraj al-Libi about. Do you have the links that KSM gave crucial information in 2007? i know they learned the real name in 2007 but I have not seen the source.
