as others have mentioned, defensively, there's no comparison; bagwell's also been an asset on the basepaths -- his baserunning skills are severely underrated; he may very well be among the best at his position. thomas also has the stigma of not being very likeable. granted, bagwell's not flashy and he's had to play his entire career in houston, but i think he's well-respected by his peers and those who cover the game. thomas also plays in a league riddled with great first basemen throughout its history and he'll be compared to them and may not stack up. (example, does he get in before rafael palmiero?) lastly, if you look at thomas' career, his numbers are a bit inflated by some staggeringly good years early. bagwell's been far more consistent. (i still think thomas'll get in, though.)
Well, apparently Sports Illustrated doesn't agree with us that Bagwell's a slam dunk for Cooperstown. Just got my latest issue -- the one with Kobe on the front. Inside, there's an article called "Eight Men In" that talks about the 8 current big leaguers "who leave no doubt that their portraits will hang in the Hall." According the SI, "The best of the best bear the HOF stamp long before any votes are cast." SI's 8? Maddux Clemens A-Rod Sosa Bonds Piazza Pedro Big Unit OK, I can't argue with those 8, but why not make it an even 9 and include Bagwell? Pretty lame leaving Bags off the list the same week he hits his 400th ...
i dont agree with A-Rod being on that list already.. I don't think if he never played another game that he would automatically get in... he has done some amazing things so far...but HOF without a doubt already?
just a side note....big hurt's offensive numbers playing 1b compared to dh are flat out insane. i know he isn't amazing in the field but take a look. http://bigleaguers.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/4527/situational?year=career&type=Batting
a-rod has pretty much put up numbers better than any other shortstop in the relatively short period of time he has played. plus he is a great fielder to boot. so yeah...right now he is a 1st ballot HOF.
http://msn.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/bp/1584958.html 1990 August 30: Boston traded Jeff Bagwell to Houston for Larry Andersen. The mother of all moronic deadline deals. Bagwell was a third baseman in the minors who had demonstrated the ability to hit for a very high average, was young, and actually looked something like a young Wade Boggs. Andersen was a 37-year-old right-handed middle reliever, albeit a low-risk one. Andersen pitched a total of 22 innings over 15 games for Boston, and is best known for being quotable and disliking Rickey Henderson. Bagwell's the best player ever to wear an Astros uniform, recently hit his 400th home run, and will roll into Cooperstown on the first ballot. Red Sox GM Lou Gorman's mammoth blunder was the wakeup call for many people to more carefully examine minor league performances. In fairness to Gorman, Bagwell has demonstrated greater power in the majors than in the minors, but this was still an inexcusable deal. Advantage: Houston is an understatement.
Thank you for posting that, I can't believe Houston fans think the guy is a first ballot hall of famer. Saying he is the best 1st baseman in NL history is like saying someone's the best left fielder in NL history, that's true, but it comes down to offensive production in this era, especially when you play one of the easiest positions in the field. Not saying its all about home runs either, but if he was finished today, he wouldn't be first ballot.
pgabriel -- if he finishes with around 450-500 HR's..given a career average near .300...he's a lock for first ballot...he's a HOF lock, anyway...but if he does those things, he'll lock in first ballot. he's very close. particularly as a strong defensive 1B.
Revisionist bs. Of course, looking back on it now, it *was* a terrible deal. At the time, however, it made a ton of sense: 1) Sox were in a tight pennant chase & needed bully help; 2) Andersen was very, very good, and pitched well for Boston; 3) The Sox had Scott Cooper and most everybody in MLB viewed him as a great prospect; 4) Bagwell had ZERO power in the minors - nobody, *nobody* thought that he would turn into the player he did. Trades involving minor leaguers are always iffy propositions, every single club in MLB has traded away a great player, most more than one, but to blast Gorman in hindsight 13 years later is ridiculous.
I think Bagwell would be first ballot if he gets to 500, that's such a guideline for so many people. Otherwise I don't think either of them will quite get in on that first ballot. Not having any post season success will hurt them with many and they've never been high publicity guys. It's too bad Bagwell and Biggio had to play in the Astrodome though, if they'd played in a decent offensive park you could probably add 10% to all of their stats.
Baseball Prospectus said this 1990 August 30: Boston traded Jeff Bagwell to Houston for Larry Andersen. The mother of all moronic deadline deals. Bagwell was a third baseman in the minors who had demonstrated the ability to hit for a very high average, was young, and actually looked something like a young Wade Boggs. Andersen was a 37-year-old right-handed middle reliever, albeit a low-risk one. Andersen pitched a total of 22 innings over 15 games for Boston, and is best known for being quotable and disliking Rickey Henderson. Bagwell's the best player ever to wear an Astros uniform, recently hit his 400th home run, and will roll into Cooperstown on the first ballot. Red Sox GM Lou Gorman's mammoth blunder was the wakeup call for many people to more carefully examine minor league performances. In fairness to Gorman, Bagwell has demonstrated greater power in the majors than in the minors, but this was still an inexcusable deal.
One thing completely forgotten here is that the Hall of Fame is about substance as much as it is about your stats. Bagwell's peers respect him more than almost any other player. You can't say that about Thomas. There's a reson for that. And it's not because Bagwell is a nice guy. It's everything. It's clutch hits, it's leadership, it's respect. That is what carries into the Hall of Fame. I think heds be first ballot easy if he retired today. Biggio is going to get a lot of play from the baseball writers. He's also got the respect factor. Although not nearly as big as Bagwell's. So Biggio is on the edge. No doubt. He may need to hit some milestones to be considered. When it comes down to the voting, I think people will waiver on voting for him, but ultimately, he's the kind of guy you lean towards rather than away from.
Jeff Bagwell is a First Ballot hall-of-famer. RIGHT NOW. If he retired after this year, he'd be in Cooperstown in five years. There is no debate about this, he's a stone cold lock. If you think otherwise, you are incorrect.
Bagwell is definitely one of the top ten best all-around first basemen of all time. I know that averages and HR totals are way up from the bygone days, but 400 dingers is nothing to sniff at. Bags is a rare player who can hit for power plus who has one of the best gloves ever at first. He is a definite first ballot H of Famer even if his career ended today.
if bagwell started his career today, in minute maid park, in the "juiced ball era" his career homers would surpass 600. but look where this man spent his prime playing days- the friggin astrodome, and yet his accomplishments remain amazing. right this minute he is absolutely guaranteed a spot in the hall. no doubt about it.
i was reading through the paper today...bagwell has a couple of impressive "only person in mlb history" records only player EVER to record 6 straight seasons of 30 homers...100 rbis...and 100 walks. that's really quite ridiculous. only first baseman to EVER have a 30/30 season. that's pretty damn impressive.
Oh, I loved it early in his career when he was stealing bases. A lot times he would steal and the catcher wouldn't even throw down because he would get such an incredible jump. Not because he was that fast, but because he read the pitchers so well.
