[b/r] The Great Debate: Who Is the NBA's Best Point Guard?

No, I never said the numbers weren't inflated. I'm not even sure how you could think that from what I said.. grasping at straws are we? And yes, it's been "proven" that not every single baseball player took steroids. It's also been "proven" that every single NBA player has had to play with the new rules.

Thank you for not responding to the relevant NBA portion of this discussion, as you clearly were making a bad argument in trying to compare it to steroids.

 

My list:

1. Chris Paul
2. Rajon Rando
3. Steve Nash
4. Derron Williams
5. Chauncey Billups
6. Derrick Rose
7. Jason Kidd
8. Aaron Brooks
9. Westbrook
10. Fisher


I think Chris Paul is the most complete point guard in the NBA, and I gave him the edge over Rondo just because he has had pretty much 0 help on the Hornets and has had some playoff success. He also is a better defender in my opinion.

Steve Nash is without question the best offensive point guard in the NBA (maybe of all time) but his defense is suspect so that is why I have him ranked behind the more complete Rondo.

Aaron Brooks is lower just because he is suspect on defense and needs to step up more later in games to really be an elite pg in the NBA.


right now the NBA has many premiere pointguards in the league and they are all really entertaining to watch

 

So you're saying that 'only a handful' of MLB guys took steroids, and this 'handful' inflated everyone's numbers? How does that happen exactly?

Yes, everyone has the same rules right now. And how is that relevant? I thought we were talking about the advantage that point guards have today over the guys that played before them. At least that's what I was talking about anyway.

I didn't really see anything relevant; I saw a bunch of talk about Dwight Howard and Durant, etc. when I thought the thread was about point guards. But anyway, were I to compare those guys to players from another era that played the same position, then changes in rules would be a legitimate point to bring up, yes. I didn't think that was too radical of a concept. I'm not sure why you're hung up on steroids and legal/illegal activities, when the main point was about having an advantage.

 

STEVE NASH HANDS DOWN BEST PG TO EVER PLAY THE GAME...

 

Rondo was not better than Paul this year in the regular season and that is with Paul's numbers going down because he came back from injury and was not the same. Before the injury Paul was playing like the best pg in the NBA or at least 2nd behind Deron.

 

You have a really hard time understanding me, so let me simplify:

Unless you're withholding some evidence the public doesn't know about, the Mitchell Report and other investigations found out that some baseball players were taking steroids. SOME. Not all of them. So no, not every player's stats from those years were inflated -- I never said that.

Sammy Sosa took steroids. Sammy Sosa's stats are probably inflated during the years he took them. Craig Biggio on the other hand did not take steroids. His career stats are probably not inflated during those years. It's easy to follow.

It's relevant because of your bad analogy. I never said the premise of your analogy was wrong -- that stats may have been inflated because of the rule changes... I actually agree with that to a certain extent. Just that it was a bad way to compare them. Trying to compare less than half of a league taking illegal drugs to gain a competitive advantage to an entire league playing fairly under rule changes? That's just a bad comparison -- that's all I was saying.

The steroid era in baseball had players shattering previous records -- that's a huge impact. I haven't seen the same in basketball.. in fact, nobody has yet to average more points over the course of a season than MJ did in his best year.

Add to that, the changes weren't all positive for perimeter players -- the introduction of the zone is not to the benefit of guards. It clogs the middle and makes it harder to penetrate.

You're right, the thread is about point guards -- I was just expounding upon your logic. A poster said this group of PGs is amongst the best we've ever seen, and you said it wasn't because the NBA rule changes have had a baseball steroid-like impact on the numbers. That's just dumb. Every era has dealt with rule changes -- but I don't see you on the soap box complaining that Larry Bird's stats were inflated because of the three point line. Or that the only reason the Rockets won their second championship is because the NBA shortened the 3-point line that year. Each of these rule changes gave players an advantage they didn't have before.

Do you really think that Deron Williams, Chris Paul, Steve Nash or Rajon Rondo would not be considered elite players in the 90s NBA? I don't.

I agree that the rule changes have benefitted some players (Aaron Brooks for one) -- but to compare the impact they've had to that of steroids in baseball is just a huge exaggeration and not a good analogy.

 

Does anyone think Rondo's poor shooting has to do with the fact that his hands are almost the same size as Shaq's. He can palm the ball of the dribble which is just crazy.

 

Eh. Maybe, but probably not. Jordan had huge hands. Yao has huge hands. I really don't think it impacts your shooting the way some people speculate. I think a simpler, and probably more likely explanation is some guys just don't work on their jumper and free throws as much as others (and probably didn't growing up).

 

Rondo supposedly spends a lot of time working on his jumper FWIW. The guy is a gym rat. I wouldn't be surprised if he puts it all together and becomes a deadly mid-range shooter in the next three years.

 

Rondo is an above-average PG without KG/Ray/Pierce.

Most of his assists come off of handing the ball to one of them three.

Most of his layups are also uncontested because most teams are so focused on the other threes' scoring abilities. When teams plan for the C's, they don't worry about Rondo scoring. That's why he's given so much room at the top.

It's not that hard to give Ray Allen the ball in the corner and get 8 assists off of that.

Let's be honest guys, if Rondo didn't have the scorers around him, he would struggle.


Put him on the Hornets and he would NEVER make an all-star game. I bet he'd average about 11ppg/8apg with them.

Also, I think any PG in the league could average at least 7apg if they were on the celtics and they held the ball at the top of the key all game.

 

I also agree with this... I'll give D-will the edge because he's a better scorer and freethrow shooter than Rondo.. if Rondo can improve his shot and freethrows he'll be unstoppable

 

D-Will is at present the best in the point guard position, no question about it.

 

Watch some basketball. Rondo is a magician with the ball. He sees passing angles and completes passes that only a handful in the game can. He also gets to the rim and finishes as well as any PG in the game. The kid is a beast.

 

Rondo is a legit point guard. No more of the Rondo being helped out by the Big 3 thing, he's come into his own.

As far as size of hands and shooting, I used to shoot around at the local court with a small little women's basketball, which I could easily palm. I dont really think it affected my shooting THAT much if you consider that being hands too big for the basketball (But of course the smaller ball can go through the hoop better, because the smaller the ball the less mass than can clank on the rim)

I still say Chris Paul is the best, no matter who's emerged and how much he's hurt.

 

Y'all are seriously high if you think Rondo is better then Chris and Deron.

 

Agreed.

 

Maybe that's the case, but if so, it's awfully strange that his shooting hasn't improved at all over the past three seasons.

Seriously. He's a point guard who shoots 62% from the FT line. That's almost unprecedented for a small guard playing his kind of minutes.

"Deadly"? He'll probably be a top five player if that happens, but I'll believe it when I see it. I think the Celtics would settle for "not horrible", and he still has a ways to go before he reaches that level.

 

Ding ding ding!

 

Paul lost to the Lakers in the WCF in 08

 

Some of you need to get over the fact that Rondo came in with "the big 3" and realize they haven't been the big 3 for the last 2 years and Rondo has had monster playoff series the last 2 years. If not for Rondo's play the Celtics would have lost in the 1st round last year against the Bulls and they would not be in the Finals this year.