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B/R - Picking 1990s NBA Starting 5

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by SKTTLZ, Aug 26, 2015.

  1. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    I believe that 99ers are the only ones who remember history correctly
     
  2. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    Shaq didn't do anything defensively better than Olajuwon. Some things Shaq did were much worse. The total outcome is, Hakeem was a far superior defender.
     
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  3. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Anyone that thinks the posters here are homers. Just google top 10 defensive centers of all time. Then Google top 10 defensive players of all time.

    Guy on almost all the resulting lists/articles? Hakeem.
    Guy on almost none? Shaq.

    It doesn't mean he was a bad defender, but Hakeem was on a different tier. In fact two or three tiers up defensively.

    Shaq was a better volume scorer. The numbers prove this out.
     
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  4. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Hakeem got steals.
     
  5. dream2franchise

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    To me, Shaq was one of those guys who would never challenge a dunk for fear of getting posterised. He went after PG's shooting layups to assert his dominance.

    Dream had no problem getting dunked on. He knew it came with the territory.
     
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  6. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

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    I'd love to watch Howard Beck defend his choice of Shaq over Hakeem off camera. I'm sure it would be a simple reasoning like my money, my job, my popularity. Something that personally effects him. The two faced each other.. in the 90s.. in their primes. Also, they never mention this, but Shaq never won a title in the 90s. Never won an MVP.

    So seriously, what would this guy's defense be?
     
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  7. slestack11

    slestack11 Member

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    Why wouldn't Malone be a good fit at PF next to Shaq? The old man Malone actually played with Shaq and they went to the finals together before the Mailman got injured in the Western Conference Finals. That was the one championship I believe that Shaq and Kobe really did leave on the table. I actually also chose Stockton in this 90's starting five instead of Payton because why wouldn't you want to have Stockton and Malone in the same lineup.


    Shaq was a more imposing interior defender even though Hakeem was a better shot blocker. The reason I say that is that it is harder to back him down as he has 40 pounds on Hakeem. If you look at them head to head, Shaq was able to back Hakeem all the way to the basket for an easy dunk but Hakeem needed to depend on finesse plays and the pump fake. I actually just watched the Orlando/Houston 1994/95 Finals on Hardcourt Classics this week and it was almost comical to see Shaq fall for Hakeem's pumpfake over and over. But what I read was that, right after that Finals, Bill Russell met with Shaq and told him to stop going for Hakeem's pumpfakes and he did much better the second half of the 90's head to head. Hakeem isn't the all time leader in blocks by the way...he's the leader in blocks since the 1973/74 season when the NBA started keeping blocks as a stat. Assuming Kareem averaged 2.8 blocks per game his first 4 seasons on the Bucks, he would have had more blocks. And many experts also believe that Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain had more blocks in their careers. But I have no reason to say that Shaq is a better shot blocker than Hakeem. Hakeem didn't play basketball until he was 15, but he was a soccer goal keeper so blocking shots is a natural thing for him. In his early NBA career, before he developed the turnaround hook that served him well, he was pretty clumsy looking on the offensive end. From the start of my first post on this thread, all I was saying was that I would want to have Shaq as my center on my all 90s team. It's funny how this turned into a "who's the better defender" attack. With MJ and Pippen in the lineup as my wing defenders, I'm good with Shaq not popping out on pick n rolls and having the wing defenders rotate and help. I'll just stick with Shaq as my Mark Eaton option...not that he's a slow big like Eaton...Shaq was actually very agile and fast for a guy his size.



    If I had Hakeem in today's game, I would probably try and find another way to keep him from popping out to defend shooters. There are a bunch of defensive rotations that teams are doing and I think the Clippers should do the same. Teams like the Spurs want you to take your best rim protector out of the lane and the pick and roll will only serve as the first move.

    I also said a 36 year old Kobe who has more miles than many all time greats had in their entire career was going to drop 40 a game so Jeremy Lin could get his 12 assists per game. I don't know how much more sarcastic I can be.



    Are you saying people on this site are capable of managing an NBA team at a high level? Better than Michael Jordan or Isiah? All I'm saying is that having experience running things like a motion offense or a box and 1 on defense because those are simple and effective plays shows that someone knows something about basketball. The NBA is more about raw athleticism than anything. The 24 second shot clock basically forces teams to go to hero ball and iso offenses. The pick and roll is just a motion offense with 2 players and the rest of the team just sits around and hopes for rebound. I guess my point is more that NBA is not a good reflection of basketball strategy because there isn't much strategy. It's Lebron saying, give me the rock and get out of the way. That's why I'm not a big fan of advanced analytics in basketball. In baseball, totally believe in it because the game is very discrete and segregated. No matter how good you are, you still only bat 1 time out of 9 at bats. In the NBA, there are so many variables and scenarios that skews the stats. The dependencies on who is on the court add too much noise to the numbers and I just don't buy it. NBA advanced analytics to me represent what Mark Twain thinks about statistics..."lies, damned lies, and statistics".



    Nope, just wanted to gloat that I go to a lot of NBA games...just thought I'd throw that in.
     
  8. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    We really need to stop letting fake Rockets fans on this board.
     
  9. aussie rocket

    aussie rocket Member

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    I remember we theorised around the idea of drafting up a test quiz that you had to pass to prove your worth upon joining.

    Some people may have actually submitted questions for it. That was probably around the time we drafted Yao.
     
  10. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    this guy is a lin fan as ZBoy showed pulling up his post history.

    "A Bunch of Houston Rockets fans on a fan forum". That's what WE are . But he's not part of our group.

    He should be eliminated.


     
  11. aussie rocket

    aussie rocket Member

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    The quiz was probably off limits because of some race card issue.
     
  12. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    apparently he thinks Houston is 'in the middle of nowhere'.

    If he can't find Houston on a map, then he won't be able to find Charlotte on the planet earth.
     
  13. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Because defense is half of the game? Being dominant on defense is incredibly important... which is why the winning teams are always dominant on defense.

    Hakeem is the better defender. You can continue to try to find ways to rationalize it to make Shaq appear better... .like saying Hakeem was a soccer player first as if that has anything to do with anything. Hakeem was better on defense. He was a better shot blocker, a better stealer, as dominant on the inside, much better when pushed away from the basket, etc.

    MAYBE it was harder to back Shaq down. And that'd be useful against I guess Dwight Howards and DeAndre Jordan. Very few great offensive players have ever depended on just backing people down. Shaq is probably the predominant/only one there.

    This might work against a few teams, but on the whole, bigs have to be much more active today. Hedging, full switching, full rotations, etc. All things Shaq did not excel at. All because of the more and better 3 point shooting.

    We can go back and forth forever. Hakeem is universally recognized as a much better defender than Shaq and generally recognized as one of the top defenders ever.

    Then you are against reality. Advanced analytics has been in the NBA for a while, continues to grow in popularity, and its popularity and effectiveness has already meaningfully impacted the game to the extent it's changed the way its played. You're swimming upstream against a strong current here.

    All professional sports is ultimately about athleticism and skill. But strategy plays a huge role. See Warriors 2014/15 champions vs. 2013/2014 season. See the Spurs transformations strategically over the years. And countless other examples. The best of the best usually always get a ring in there or two. But they also require the right system to get them there.

    That kind of just makes you a dick. "Look at me!! I have season tickets!!" I'm not calling you out or being rude. I'm just pointing out its dickish behavior.
     

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