I already admitted that I accepted your word for it that you did not celebrate, and I was wrong to presume that you did. In an effort to move the conversation onwards I will await your answer as to why you did not celebrate when you believed the U.S. had killed Al-Zawahiri. My questions might amuse you, but I see that after two days you still have no answer for them.
As with all things in a war like this, some good and some bad. Assuming all 18 were really innocent and assuming the below report is true, I have to think this was justified and beneficial given our current status. It would have been much better to get these guys at Tora Bora a few years ago, but I'll take what we can get, especially with this administration. Also, I doubt any kind of facts can now change the minds of the folks who were protesting the strike. _____________ U.S. Strike Killed al Qaeda Bomb Maker Terror Big Also Trained 'Shoe Bomber,' Moussaoui By HABIBULLAH KHAN and BRIAN ROSS http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=1517986 Jan. 18, 2006 — - ABC News has learned that Pakistani officials now believe that al Qaeda's master bomb maker and chemical weapons expert was one of the men killed in last week's U.S. missile attack in eastern Pakistan. Midhat Mursi, 52, also known as Abu Khabab al-Masri, was identified by Pakistani authorities as one of four known major al Qaeda leaders present at an apparent terror summit in the village of Damadola early last Friday morning. The United States had posted a $5 million reward for Mursi's capture. He is described by authorities as the man who ran al Qaeda's infamous Derunta training camp in Afghanistan, where he used dogs and other animals as subjects for experiments with poison and chemicals. His explosives training manual is still regarded as the bible for al Qaeda terrorists around the world. "He wants to cause mayhem, major death, and he puts his expertise on the line. So the fact that we took him out is significant," said former FBI agent Jack Cloonan, an ABC News consultant, who was the senior agent on the FBI's al Qaeda squad. "He's the man who trained the shoe bomber Richard Reid and Zacarias Moussaoui, as well as hundreds of others." Pakistani officials also said that Khalid Habib, the al Qaeda operations chief for Pakistan and Afghanistan, and Abdul Rehman al Magrabi, a senior operations commander for al Qaeda, were killed in the Damadola attack. Authorities tell ABC News that the terror summit was called to funnel new money into attacks against U.S. forces in Afghanistan. "Pakistani intelligence says this was a very important planning session involving the very top levels of al Qaeda as they get ready for a new spring offensive," explained Alexis Debat, a former official in the French Defense Ministry and now an ABC News consultant As for Ayman al-Zawahiri, al Qaeda's No. 2 man, U.S. and Pakistani officials agree that it is still possible but increasingly unlikely that he was killed. If he is alive, he has lost many of those close to him, however. "Zawahiri, if he slept three hours on a normal night, he's sleeping an hour and a half right now with his eyes wide open," Cloonan said. "He's looking around right now and wondering who handed him up. Not a nice feeling."
Sorry, after all the lies of this administration, disinformation put out by the military and trying to counter bad press of killing 18 people, forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical about this "new" information coming to light. Show me the bodies and then I'll believe it.
Looks like there's a good chance that 4 al Qaeda operatives were killed in this strike. I guess the liberals' celebrations were a little premature!! Just goes to show you that it might not be a good move to rush condemn any possible good news regarding the war, yet immediately agree with self-interested, illiterate Pakistani villagers who accuse the US of wrongdoing. This is great news. They ought to destroy the rest of the village while they are at it for harboring terrorists and lying about it.
So after the Bush administration has spent nearly 5 years and billions of dollars chasing a guy on donkey-back with super high tech surveillance equipment, powerful military weaponry, and elite special forces units - we have SUCCEEDED in causing him, via a growing sense of UNEASE to have NOT NICE feelings! Break out the prozac, b****!
yeah thats the same rational being used by insurgents in iraq.. death to all enemy sympathizers.. include innocent women, children, elderly.. no exception!
Once again you accuse people of celebrating the non-death of Al-Zawahiri, yet provide no examples of this happening. Meanwhile bigtexxx can't even answer the question of why he believed al-zawahiri to have been killed but didn't see fit to celebrate the incident. He's had days and days to think about his answer, and he can't come up with anything.
I'm shocked that you're still trying to save face from the humiliation that I dealt you a few days ago. You are so far over the map with your twists and wiggles in your attempt to backtrack on what you said that frankly, I have no idea what you are trying to prove or even what you are asking me. You made a fool of yourself with your assertion that I celebrated prematurely, which I didn't do. Now that we have learned that Al Qaeda members and sympathizers have died, I will celebrate! Nice work, CIA and troops!
It is simple. Pay attention. I will spell it out once again. I will believe you that you believed the U.S. killed al-Zawahiri and didn't celebrate. I was wrong to presume that you would have celebrated when you believed that the U.S. killed al-Zawahiri. I admitted I was wrong in when I presumed you celebrated what you believed to be the death of al-Zawahiri. There was no effort for me to deny I was wrong at all. Since you did believe the U.S. had killed al-Zawahiri why wouldn't you celebrate that? It is a simple question. Now that you are celebrating the success in killing 4 people under al-Zawahiri why wouldn't you celebrate back when you believed that we had killed al-zawahiri himself?
Bigtexxx. After a week has gone by, and you haven't responded, I'll go ahead and presume this means you are unable to answer the simple question put to you.
This is hilarious! I find it astonishingly humorous that you keep dragging on this thread in which I proved you to be wrong, as you have admitted. Please refer to post #130 in this thread.
I do find it hilarious. It is hilarious because there is something far more puzzling about somebody believing that the U.S. had killed Al-Zawahiri, but didn't celebrate, than there is about someone who imagined you, like almost all patriotic Americans would celebrate if Al-Zawahiri had been killed. It is so hilarious, because you are in a catch 22. In your effort to prove me wrong you claimed you didn't celebrate when you believed that Al-Zawahiri had been killed by the U.S. Now you are unable to explain why. That is comical indeed.
If you were a decent debater, you would simply give a "YES" or "NO" answer to his repeated question, and give your reasons for that. After that, you can go on laughing at him how he's "trying to save face". But instead, you kept ranting about how you humiliated him, and conveniently "FORGOT" to answer the question. If you were a smart debater, you would simply give a "YES" or "NO" answer first, then start to spin all you want, and make sure the attention is on how wrong he was. Unless, you realize you are simply trapped by your own words, that you would be contridicting yourself, no matter you answer Yes or No. Then, if you were a decent debater, you will admit that your were wrong at some point in this thread, to earn some leverage and credit in future debates, and continue to claim that you are a "bigger man". Or, if you were a smart debate, but not confident enough to face own error, you should just move on, and simply let this thread die. It puzzles me greatly, why you would keep bragging without giving any answer. Now, before you attack anyone in this thread, about anyone's intention/logic/sense/patriotism/grammar or whatever, please give a direct answer of "Yes" or "No", to the direct question "Did you or did you not celebrate when you first heard the news." Otherwise, if I were you, I would stay out of this thread for good.
First of all, thanks FranchiseBlade for continuing to bump this thread so all on the board can see how I proved you wrong. For that I thank you. Secondly, real egal, thanks for trying to support FB. He needs it, as we can all see after I proved him wrong and he admitted as much. FB - you think I am in a catch 22? That's interesting, considered you were the one who was proven wrong in this thread! My original issue with what you said (which has been lost in your spiraling effort to save face) was the inclusion of your negative qualifiers to the potential good news. Go back and read the thread to ground yourself in the facts, please. You made a negative jab at the troops' previous efforts by claiming that they had grabbed one of "34 different #3 guys", as if they hadn't done anything of substance in the war against Al Qaeda. That was my issue with your comments.
Again you failed to answer the question. Why didn't you celebrate when you believed that the U.S. had killed Al-Zawahiri? It isn't a loss of face for me to believe that someone would celebrate at the death of Al-Zawahiri. You are correct that I was wrong in presuming you would celebrate that. So I am moving the discussion forward. Why wouldn't you celebrate the death of Al-Zawahiri? As for my qualifiers, the actual facts have proven them justified. They were not negative, but obviouisly realistic, since that is what came to pass. If you are unable to come to a satisfactory rationale for why you wouldn't celebrate believing that the U.S. had killed Al-Zawahiri, then please just say so, and I won't continue bringing up this thread. Otherwise answer the question so that discussion can progress forward.
You used hyperbole to suggest that American troops have killed another of the "34 Al Qaeda #3 guys". That is what I take issue with. That is not accurate. It is hyperbole intended to belittle the efforts of our troops.
In the future you would be wise not to tell me what I intended, without proof. Your argument is baseless and without merit. It isn't intended to belittle the troops at all, but to belittle false propoganda that we keep hearing. Now moving on to the my question... You don't have to answer it, if you don't feel you have an answer worth sticking up for and defending. In that case just admit it and let it die. Why didn't you celebrate when you believed that the U.S. had killed Al-Zawahiri?
This line is simply the cherry on top of your disastrous face saving attempt in this thread! You started this imbroligo by telling me that I celebrated (without proof!), which I did not do in this thread! Keep putting your foot in your mouth, I'm loving it! Your snide remark about taking out another of the "34 Al Qaeda #3 guys" is clear for all to see that you are mocking our troops' efforts. No interpretation needed.
