I am not exaggerating when I tell you that you are doing the terrorists a big favor by saying that. They WANT you to propagate these ideas. That's why they hide like cowards amongst civilians. They know that even if they are killed, there will be large numbers of innocents killed, which helps their public relations campaign against the US. So by you jumping all over this case, you are in fact furthering their cause. When the US is bending over backwards NOT to kill civilians, it's amazing that people are critical in situations such as this. Let's remember who is inviting the action into civilian populated areas -- the terrorists. It is their cowardly behavior that forces the loss of innocent life.
i will not back down from my morals because of the terrorists. why do you? well not you you because i know you have few morals but in general. and again thats their logic too.
How did the CIA drone in this case "bend over backward" to avoid killing innocents? Are you kidding me or have you lost your mind altogether? Don't give me that liberal crap because I am much more conservative than you will ever get, and I have certain morals (which you apparently don't have) that makes me feel a bit sad when I hear about 10 women and kids getting killed. Were those terrorists? If they were, then show me proof and I will concede this point to you. Don't be so rediculously blind and brainwashed to the point that you have little to no sympathy to innocents killed. If Al-Zawahiri was not one of those killed, then tell me how does this help the US's image abroad? Could it have been a mistake? Yes, of course, it probably was. But I would like to think that our government doesn't consider firing bombs into villages unless they are 100% sure that their target is present.
Pure rubbish. The US bends over backwards to avoid civilian casualties. Would you prefer carpet bombing cities like was done in WWII? We could turn all of the Middle East into a nice little sandbox if we wanted to and be done with them entirely. But we don't. We use smart bombs. We avoid dropping huge bombs into heavily populated areas. We don't destroy mosques. We haven't nuked Sadr City. We work with the civilians to help train a police force to protect them. It's absolutely ignorant to say that the US recklessly kills civilians in this war. Were the 18 killed terrorists? Who knows. They are harboring a terrorist if nothing else. Or were at one time. If they weren't, then the terrorists are to blame for their death for hiding amongst innocents. Blaming the US for their deaths is absolutely wrong.
It cracks me up the ignorant ones feel we attack without analysis and restraint. I'm watching the military channel, and they have interviewed special forces personnel, who state they are briefed by lawyers before missions to ensure the right things are done. How much quantitative analysis, restraint and such is possible while trying to be perfect? I almost wish we weren't so restrained in everything we do...
Jorge you obviously don't understand the value of life. Lets say that the CIA thought a terrorist was living in your neighbors house. They bombed it and your house gets destroyed also. You aren't at your house but your family was. Would you still have the same train of thought, after your family has just died. Now imagine your self being poor as dirt. Living in a 3rd world country. With little or no education. How would you feel about the US? You'd just give the excuse that the US has bent over backwards not to kill civilians? No. You'd be ****ing pissed. These people might not have been terrorist before but there's a good chance they could turn in to terrorists after they see there family and friends die.
Actually, it's ignorant to make claims either way. We don't know if the intelligence that this attack was based on was cross-verified 20 ways and had eyewitness, photo and DNA evidence substantiating it, or if some feuding Pashtun chief from the neighboring village passed on a lie to one CIA operative. But let's look at the evidence so far, which is admittedly premature, but all we have to work with: 1. Reportedly, some bodies removed for DNA testing; 2. A lot of dead women and children; 3. Denials of aq connections from residents; 4. Recent US Intelligence track record; 5. Reports that Pakistani intelligence believes an error was made. Premature, but it ain't looking too good right now.
Yes FrenchieTerroristSupporterAmericaHaterBlade is well-protected in his Durex sheath of slimy liberalism. If there were more Super American Patriot Freedom Warriors on ClutchBBS, like you and me and T_J, the terrorists would not be receiving so much aid and comfort from those who claim to love their country but only spread treasonous libel like cold sores at a slumber party.
TJ, while the terrorists are acting deplorably by hiding among civilians, that does not mean we have an absolute right to sacrifice civilian lives. How would you feel if Russia took out an apartment complex in Houston because they suspected Chechen terrorists were living there? Surely the lives of 18 Houstonians is a small price to pay to help the Russians fight against terrorism right? Sometimes civilian lives have to be sacrificed. That is a fact of war and that is why war should *always* be our last resort. However, just because loss of innocent lives is inevitable does not mean we are not allowed to criticize it when it happens. We must be constantly reminded of the price of war, not just in terms of dollars and the loss of American lives, but also the incredible human suffering we have inflicted upon innocent foreigners. Non-Americans are human too.
Note to tribal people along border: Stop harboring these terrorists, turn them in and your people won't die.
Note to bigtexxx: Hard to evict people with guns. Would you kill a kidnapped victim along with a kidnapper and tell them: "Hey, stop shielding the criminal with your body." Maybe some of the villagers were terrorist sympathizer. But how can you be sure all of them were?
Well, it appears that my hopeful, but wait and see attitude was the correct one. I could have been enthusiastic and wrong like TJ, or bigtexxx, but I wasn't. I was hopeful, but measured, based on past incidents.
This is just lunacy. You jumped into the thread with a snide comment meant to disparage our previous efforts by claiming that we've "killed another of the 34 #3 guys in Al Qaeda". Now you're pulling an "I told you so"? Sad.
Pakistan protests U.S. missile strike Airstrike kills at least 17, reportedly misses al-Qaida's No. 2 ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Pakistan said Saturday it had filed a formal protest with the U.S. Embassy over a deadly airstrike on a border village that reportedly targeted al-Qaida's No. 2 and killed at least 17 people. "According to preliminary investigations there was foreign presence in the area and that, in all probability, was targeted from across the border in Afghanistan," the Foreign Ministry said in a statement. "The investigations are still continuing." "Meanwhile, the Foreign Office has lodged a protest with the U.S. Ambassador in Islamabad," the ministry said. The U.S. Embassy had not yet received any protest by mid-evening Saturday, embassy spokesman Rakesh Surampudi said. Not at the site? Pakistani officials said Saturday on condition of anonymity that Friday's airstrike in the northwestern village of Dalamoda, which killed at least 17 people, targeted Ayman al-Zawahri, Osama bin Laden's top lieutenant. But Pakistan's assessment was the al-Qaida suspect was not at the site and the CIA had launched the attack based on incorrect information. Arabiya television reported on Saturday, quoting a source which it said has contact with al-Qaida, that al-Zawahri was still alive. "Reports of his death are wishful thinking," it quoted unnamed sources as saying. The station gave no further details. Al-Zawahri was believed to be in Damodola to celebrate Eid, the Muslim festival at the end of Ramadan, along with several other high-ranking al-Qaida officials, according to U.S. counter terrorism and intelligence officials. "A group was gathering there, celebrating Eid," a senior U.S. counter terrorism official told NBC News. "He was supposed to be there and there is good reason to believe he was there. We are not talking about a 'strong hope' he was there. We had good intelligence." Officials were listening for any "chatter" that would indicate Zawahri is dead or alive, believing that that will give them the first hint of his fate. A senior U.S. intelligence official added that "some remains" had been retrieved from the area but would not say whether the remains were in the hands of Pakistani or U.S. officials. Pakistan is a key ally in the U.S.-led war on terror and has deployed tens of thousands of troops along the Afghan border to hunt down al-Qaida and Taliban fighters, but it says it does not allow U.S. forces to operate on its soil. Earlier Saturday, Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed condemned the airstrike, but did not directly blame the United States for the attack. Ahmed told a news conference the government wanted "to assure the people we will not allow such incidents to reoccur." He also said the government had no information about al-Zawahri. "We deeply regret that civilian lives have been lost in an incident in Bajur agency. While this act is highly condemnable, we have been for a long time striving to rid all our tribal areas of foreign intruders who have been responsible for all the misery and violence in the region. This situation has to be brought to an end," he said. Asked who had carried out the attack, Ahmed said Pakistan's Foreign Ministry would "let you know." Ahmed said it was also the responsibility of local people "to fully cooperate with the government in flushing out the foreign militants" from Pakistan. Digging for more bodies Like bin Laden, al-Zawahri, is believed to have been hiding along the rugged Pakistan-Afghan frontier since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on America. He has a $25 million U.S. government bounty on his head. An AP reporter who visited Damadola about 12 hours after the attack saw three destroyed houses, hundreds of yards apart. Villagers had buried at least 15 people, including women and children, and were digging for more bodies in the rubble. Villagers denied hosting al-Zawahri or any other al-Qaida or Taliban figure, and said all the dead were local people. On Saturday, more than 8,000 tribesmen staged a peaceful protest in a nearby town to condemn the airstrike, which one speaker described as "open terrorism." Police dispersed a smaller protest in another town using tear gas. A mob torched the office of a U.S.-backed aid agency near Damadola, residents said. U.S. and Pakistani officials told NBC news that U.S. predator drones had fired as many as 10 missiles at Damadola in the Bajur tribal region of northwestern Pakistan. ABC quoted anonymous Pakistani military sources as saying al-Zawahri could have been among five top al-Qaida officials believed killed. The second Pakistani intelligence official told AP the remains of some bodies had "quickly been removed" from Damadola after the strike and DNA tests were being conducted, but would not say by whom. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to media. Shah Zaman, a tribesman whose home was destroyed but survived the attack, denied hosting any terrorists and said no officials had taken bodies away. "I don't know him (al-Zawahri). He was not at my home. No foreigner was at my home when the planes came and dropped bombs," he said. Local lawmaker Sahibzada Haroon ur Rashid, who visited Damadola soon after the attack, said the dead had already been buried, and claimed no foreigners were among them. They came from a local family of jewelers, he said, adding that none of the bodies had been burnt or charred beyond recognition that would make identification difficult. In Washington, Pentagon, State Department, National Security Council and intelligence officials all said they had no information on the reports concerning al-Zawahri. In Afghanistan, U.S. military spokesman Lt. Mike Cody referred questions on the matter to the Pentagon. The U.S. Embassy in Pakistan referred questions to the Pakistan government. Blasts felt miles away Doctors told AP that at least 17 people died in the attack, but residents of Damadola, a Pashtun tribal hamlet on a hillside about four miles from the Afghan border, said more than 30 had died. They recounted hearing aircraft flying overhead before bombs or missiles crashed through the village -- blasts that were felt miles away. Speaking as he dug through the cement rubble of his home, Zaman said he heard planes at around 2:40 a.m. and then eight explosions. He said planes had been flying over the village for the last three or four days. At another destroyed house, Sami Ullah, a 17-year-old student, said 24 of his family members were killed and vowed he would "seek justice from God." The attack was the latest in a series of strikes on the Pakistan side of the border with Afghanistan, unexplained by authorities but widely suspected to have targeted terror suspects or Islamic militants. Pakistan lodged a protest Monday with the U.S. military in Afghanistan after a reported U.S. air strike killed eight people in the North Waziristan tribal region last Saturday. Pakistan says it does not allow U.S. forces to cross the border in pursuit of Taliban and al-Qaida fighters. In Afghanistan, Mohammed Hasan, deputy police chief of Kunar province, which is opposite Bajur, said U.S. forces had for weeks been patrolling in airplanes along the rugged border, which he described as a hide-out for Arab terrorists. Al-Zawahri, an Egyptian, has appeared regularly over the Internet and in Arab media, encouraging Muslims to attack Americans and U.S. interests worldwide.
Trust me, those few bombings the past couple of months along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border could not have taken place without prior consent from the Pakistani government; what they're doing now is common in the Arab world (the Saudis and the Egyptians do it all the time): approval in private denial and protest in public. The Pakistanis aren't fooling anyone...
