I'm sorry, but those trades were awful. He was supposed to hit on the prospects with top end talent. The White Sox got Cease, Giolito, Kopech, Moncada, and Jimenez for Adam Eaton, Chris Sale, and Quintana. That's how you get it done...
‘Let me know when the white sox saw any success with those pieces….. ‘At least those trades started the laying and groundwork for what we have today. For that, I am okay. Enough with the Avenge talk also…. We talked that same talk last seat and look what it got us.
Sorry, i misunderstood the context. I think you were referring to the first line. Happ was moved for Musgrove who was moved for Cole. The other guys had very limited value for trades because they weren't doing well at all after coming to us.
Completely disagree. There is no way to know how a prospect, even a top prospect will end up performing. At the time, the returns on all those trades looked very good. Take the Zach Grienke trade as an example. Seth Beer: #3 MLB Pipeline. #18 Fangraphs J.B. Bukauskas: #4 MLB Pipeline. #4 Fangraphs Corbin Martin: #5 MLB Pipeline. #3 Fangraphs Josh Rojas: #22 MLB Pipeline. The 2 pitchers were rated by multiple prospect sites as better prospects than: Framber Valdez and Cristian Javier and even Yordan Alvarez. Some outlets even had Beer ahead of Alvarez at the time. The Diamondbacks thought they struck gold at the time.
Nov 7, 2007 - Traded Brad Lidge (P) and Eric Bruntlett (IF) to Phi-N for Geoff Geary (P), Michael Bourn (OF) and Mike Constanzo (IF) Brad Lidge was done, he hustled them for Bourne Jul 29, 2010 - Traded Roy Oswalt (P) and cash to PHI-N for J.A. Happ (P), Anthony Gose (OF) and Jonathan Villar (IF) JA Happ was not good at the time anyway but Roy had nothing left Jan 10, 2011 - Traded Albert Cartwright (IF) to PHI-N for Sergio Escalona (P) Who? Jul 29. 2011 - Traded Hunter Pence (OF) to PHI-N for Jarred Cosart (P), Jonathan Singleton (IF), Josh Zeid (P) and Domingo Santana (OF) This one still breaks my heart, there was no reason to trade Pence. I'm happy he got to win two World Series but he should've retired an Astro. The insult to injury was the mess of a career of Jonathan Singleton. Wade stuck his fist in the fears of Astros fans for four years
Oswalt was at the end. Pence, though, was only 28 and played another 10 years and was an All star 3 more times.
Yeah, he had a bit of a resurgence, but it seemed he had fallen off in Houston, my point was he was not some great player that should have gotten a haul and Singleton was thought to be a great prospect.
Lidge was an elite closer in his first year with the Phillies and had 41 saves, no blown saves, and a sub-2 ERA for their 2008 World Series team. He had 2 more good seasons (and 1 very very bad one) with them, though one was injury-prone. Oswalt, while injured, had a 1.74 ERA in 80ish innings in his his first year with Philly and had a solid 2nd year. .
This is bizarre... it's his job to know. We don't give football gms good grades for constantly drafting busts in the first round just because the players have a first round grade. Get better talent evaluators...
Maybe, but Oswalt was 32. He had a 3.42 era with us and 1.74 era in Philly. Closest recent deal i could fine similar was the Greinke deal. He was 35 and not 32 but similar caliber pitchers at that point. Diamondbacks got a lot more... Rojas is a solid shortstop who will be a good stopgap to Lawler for them. Beer has been ok in aaa and struggled in his 126 plate appearances. Astros also took on a lot of salary in the deal. Jury is still out on the pitchers... That was 4 guys aged 22, 23, 22, and 25 at the time. Gose was 20, Villar 19, and Happ 27. They went with raw young players and didn't develop them. Happ was a solid role piece that was useful. Nothing like the allstar level guys the white sox got in Cease and Jiminez. Quintana was 28 so he was younger. He also had an era of 4.49 and wasn't a top line pitcher that year. Admittedly it's difficult to find a good comparison to Oswalt situation... 32 year old is kind of in between the guys getting dumped prior to free agency and the guys on the back end of their careers... Quintana was younger with club control while Oswalt was just a better pitcher. I just think Wade was picking the wrong guys and favored the phillies over better deals due to familiarity and maybe a desire to beat them on a deal....
Oz Ocampo got hired by the Marlins to be the Assistant GM, I believe he found and signed Jose Altuve, many others. Latin America talent on the Astros Javier, Valdez, Garcia, Urquidy, Abreu many others
Comparing baseball to football is laughable. The difference between big college football and the NFL is marginal. The difference between minor leagues and major leagues is much larger. This is not new. Thousands of highly regarded prospects over the course of several decades have simply not made it. Dozens and dozens of the smartest, most experienced, and educated executives have been burned by this. Saying ANY GM should be 100% or even 50% is simply not realistic. It's like saying a professional poker player should win every hand every time. There is too much luck involved.
Except Lidge went 41 for 41 in save opportunities the following year, one of the best seasons ever for a reliever But other than that yea, he was done
Lol You obviously have zero idea how baseball works if you are comparing trading for baseball prospects to NFL GM's drafting in the 1st round
