Attention all Fathers

For the record, in case I wasn't clear enough....He absolutely did the right thing in defending himself. I said that many times. I never said he should be punished for that. I said he will be punished for breaking a school rule (fighting). He has to learn to take the bad with the good.

 

At first you said "My 8 year old just popped a bully in the eye and gave him a black eye. This bully was pushing my boy and calling him names." Now it's "he was fighting for his life". Ok, that is very believable...

He can't and won't be supervised at all times. This could of happened many other places on school grounds. But you wont admit to this. Rather, you want to shift the liability of the kid's actions. He is the one who broke the rules.

This is not about wrong or right, or fair. IT IS AGAINST THE SCHOOL RULES TO FIGHT. PERIOD. That is all. He can present his case and hope for leniency. And I'm not saying don't defend yourself. You have to do what you have to do. I'm just saying beware of the rules, and take every measure to follow them. And if you don't, get ready for the consequences.

Also, when parents constantly fight with the rules, threatening to sue etc., it makes a teacher's job virtually impossible to "supervise". Why would a kid listen to them?



BTW, I don't want kids. This is why.

 

Fair enough.

 

Does a kid have to be 'fighting for his life' to defend himself? The argument that it COULD happen outside the purvue of the teacher is wholly and completely irrelevant. Its mindless nonsense to say 'thems the rules, bub.' Rules are guidelines, not commandments from God. Rules against fighting are in place to stop people from STARTING fights, not to allow bullies to pummel other kids. Your vision of what 'makes it hard to teach' are warped. Telling a victim they must be punished for defending themselves is a sure way to teach them to disregard authority.

 

He may or may not be punished, it depends on the situation.

Rules are not that concrete Behad.

Falcon's let us know what happens.

DD

 

The end result here is that your son did him self a world of good by standing up for himself and punching the class bully (in front of classmates!). It seems this little altercation could be negotiated down to a Sat. afternoon detention with the connections you and your wife have with the school.

If he continues to have troubles buy him this video I’m sure it will help…

 

In most schools, I believe they are. I know they are in my kids school district.

FT, if you don't mind, post that dialogue I sent you, I don't want to re-type it.


When my oldest was twelve, he came home one day limping. We asked what happened, and he showed us a huge bruise on his leg. We asked how it happened, and he said "Octavio kicked me." So we questioned my son about it. Seems Octavio had been picking on my son for a few days, making fun of his heigth and such (my son is short for his age). My son was getting fed up with it, and told the kid to knock it off. A shouting match ensued, in which the kick happened. We took pictures of the bruise.

The next day we get a call from the school...my son had gotten into a fight with Octavio. It happened in the hallway, where no teachers saw it till it was almost over. According to the other kids, my son kicked his ass. So we went there, and my son says "Dad, I was tired of the name calling, the pushing, and my leg hurt so bad I that I just reacted when he started in on me."

Of course, both kids get ISS. We talked to the principal who understood our side, but had to enforce the rules about fighting. Octavio had a reputation as a bully, but rules are rules.

Here's the part that pissed me off. The other parents called the school, and threatened legal action against the school and against us (sound familiar?) if something more wasn't done to my son, because their "little angel" would never act like that. They were all fired up about it...till we showed them the pictures of my son's leg, and brought in a couple of kids who saw the kick. They backed down after that.

The point I'm trying to make is the school cannot be put into a position to decide who is the bully and who is the victim. To the school, it's always a case of "he said, he said". The only way to stop it is to punish all involved.

 

This might be true with an incident outside the classroom. No reason for it to be true INSIDE the classroom.

And again, think about other things we teach our kids - when do we say 'yes, its wrong but get used to it.' Yes, its ok to defend yourself but you're going to be punished anyway smacks of the very hypocrisy that caused kids to tune adults out.

 

Ft

Thanks for all the info... at first I thought you were just a parent that many teachers see who never feel like their child did a thing.

I think behad is right about many districts having no tolerance rules. Usually what happens is the person who they feel like was the aggressor gets a harsher penalty. The main reason I think they will give your son something is so they do not have to deal with the bullys parents.

 

Obviously, if the entire fight is witnessed, then other or unequal punishments may be in order. This was not the case in FT's son's incident.

 

He did the right thing. Kenny Rogers would say so.

Ev'ryone considered him the coward of the county.
He'd never stood one single time to prove the county wrong.
His mama named him Tommy, the folks just called him yellow,
But something always told me they were reading Tommy wrong.

He was only ten years old when his daddy died in prison.
I took care of Tommy 'cause he was my brother's son.
I still recall the final words my brother said to Tommy:
"Son, my life is over, but yours is just begun.

Promise me, son, not to do the things I've done.
Walk away from trouble if you can.
Now it don't mean you're weak if you turn the other cheek.
I hope you're old enough to understand:
Son, you don't have to fight to be a man."

There's someone for ev'ryone and Tommy's love was Becky.
In her arms he didn't have to prove he was a man.
One day while he was workin' the Gatlin boys came callin'.
They took turns at Becky.... There we're three of them!

Tommy opened up the door and saw his Becky cryin'.
The torn dress, the shattered look was more than he could stand.
He reached above the fireplace and took down his daddy's picture.
As the tears fell on his daddy's face, He heard these words again:

"Promise me, son, not to do the things I've done.
Walk away from trouble if you can.
Now it won't mean you're weak if you turn the other cheek.
I hope you're old enough to understand:
Son, you don't have to fight to be a man."

The Gatlin boys just laughed at him when he walked into the barroom.
One of them got up and met him halfway 'cross the floor.
When Tommy turned around they said, "Hey look! ol' yellow's leavin'."
But you coulda heard a pin drop when Tommy stopped and locked the door.

Twenty years of crawlin' was bottled up inside him.
He wasn't holdin' nothin' back; he let 'em have it all.
When Tommy left the barroom not a Gatlin boy was standin'.
He said, "This one's for Becky," as he watched the last one fall.
And I heard him say,

"I promised you, Dad, not to do the things you done.
I walked away from trouble when I can.
Now please don't think I'm weak, I couldn't turn the other cheek,
and Papa, I sure hope you understand:
Sometimes you gotta fight when you're a man."

Ev'ryone considered him the coward of the county.

I was picked on immercifully for ancestry and those stupid enough to torment me got a douse of old Mr. Knuckle Sandwich. This kid used to shove me down and trip me when I was a kid. He bullied me until I told my Dad about it and he said I had to stand up for myself. One day on the bus, this guy shoved me down. Instead of crying or trying to slink away, I slammed him in the face with my U.S. history book. It flattened his nose like a pancake and blood just ran down his face as he cried like the weak piece of excrement he was.
Like most bullies, he was a weak person trying to build himself up by picking on others. I was never bullied by anyone at school again.
Especially since word got around I broke the SOB's nose. I was 11 at the time.

You have to defend yourself and be assertive or people will walk all over you. Sometimes violence is the only solution. That's what I tell my kids.

 

Wow. My first ignore list. b****in'. Just don't punch me.

I think I am saying the exact thing Behad is saying.

My wife taught for high-school for eight years until last year, and my mother off and on for 35. I have heard quite a bit about it, and witnessed what they have gone through. (way too much of it..)

It's about the rules, brah. Parents these days make too many excuses for their kids breaking them. Wasn't there a parent in the news last week making excuses for thier kid bringing a gun to school, becasue he feared for his safety, etc. Why would a teacher even try when the parent doesn't care?

Look, I'm not a huge rule follower myself. I am just married to a teacher. A woman teacher. I am forced to feel their pain, it is then my pain...

 

Does she make you sit in the corner when you misbehave?

 

My mom is a teacher. If you knew what she knew, you'd agree that these teachers nowadays have no control over their kids. Don't tell me it's hard because I ran an entire marching band with no band director backing me up for a week. If a peer can do it, someone with authority sure as heck can do it. We dont give teachers enough credit at times but sometimes we give them too much benefit of the doubt.

 

The important question is whether or not you gave your son "respek knuckles" already?


I'm with you FT. I just don't see how your son can be punished when he was PINNED DOWN.

 

Right. Assuming FT believes his son, its his responsibility to step in and do what he can to keep his son from being unjustly punished. We don't expect our kids to stand there and take a beating and then report it later. If the administration doesn't want to get in a 'he said she said' that is their choice. It is not unreasonable for FT to take WHATEVER measures, whether ot be threatening to sue or others, to make sure his son is not punished for doing exactly what we would expect him to do - defend himself.

Punishing someone for taking the normal and correct course of action is silly. That's not a punishment I would accept, nor would I expect my kids to accept it, nor would I jettison my own credibility with my kids for some lame ass 'we didn't see it' excuse.

 

Did you not read the account of my son's fight above? We were in the exact same position as FT, yet we were the ones threatened with a lawsuit. Only the pictures of my son's leg brought a swift end to that nonsense.

Look at it this way. Does FT jr. have any physical evidence of the fight? The other kid does, he has a black eye.

FT can argue till he's blue in the face if he feels that it's necessary, but the school is going to see one kid with no marks and one kid with a black eye. Without adult eyewitnesses, the best FT can hope for is equal punishment for both.