Well...that's cool, but that does not take away the fact that ketosis is a metabolic disorder. That's what it is. Plain and simple, ketosis is a disorder that has a side effect of the burning of fat rather than carb's. There are, however, other side effects that I'm not completely sure of at the moment(Some that you definitely should be). I'm glad the diet is working for you. I'm just saying that I wouldn't feel comfortable with a diet based around a disorder.
VJ, The state of ketosis is NOT a disorder, it is a symptom of diabetes. Ketosis is a natural fat burning state...but you are correct in that being in Ketosis for too long could be damaging. That is why it is important to get to your weight and then ease back into a level of carbs that keep you at that weight. Millions of people are doing it and succeeding at it......I have lost nearly 30 pounds and feel great. DD
Well, fellas, it looks like I may join you. While I'm the classic "ectomorph" (small, thin frame) I have a major spare tire. I've gained about 15 lbs in the past couple of years...mostly around the middle. I'm a tall person so I'm just afraid I will be a friggin' stick after it's gone (hopefully). I bought the Atkins Lifestyle kit and plan to dive in about a week or two (I have to finish the frozen pizzas and other junk around the house first ).
have the book, any good website out there to read up on atkins quickly, going to take the big plunge today and start reading the book
Whether ketosis is a disorder in the practical sense of the word is for you to decide, but, regardless, it is often defined as a disorder or abnormality. Congratulations on the weight loss. I know quite a few people who also experienced similar weight loss on this diet. It's safe to say that this diet does its job...I'm just kind of wary of it because of family members' (My family is chock-full of doctors) and my biology teacher's warnings against it
I think Atkins is a great diet to start off with. One of the main purposes is to make you aware of the content of food you are putting into your system. I've been off atkins which I lost about 15lbs from but I've gone to a low carb diet with 3 days a week of excercise. 2 of which is weights and cardio and 1 of sports. I'm very aware of everything I put into my body and have increased my knowledge of dieting. Though I'm no longer on atkins and still losing weight slowly but surely. I'm down 33lbs from 240 to 206 if anyone is curious, I do have to credit atkins for making me more aware of my health and food intake.
Where you aware that doctors used to bleed patients? Well, that was a long time ago...so... Where you aware that patients with diverticulitis were told not to consume fiber? Now they're told to supplement their diets with fiber. That doctors told (and many still tell) patients that vitamin supplements did no good and are potentially harmful, yet many doctors have now started taking antioxidant supplements themselves, and most research being completed now shows remarkable benefits in fighting age-related disorders? That doctors for years said nothing was wrong with consuming copious quantities of sugar. * Just about the only time ketosis was seen was when diabetics were in a state of ketoacidosis. It's just not the same thing at all. You have every right to wait another 10 years as research piles up and ultimately turns the giant medical ship before you accept the reality, or you can think for yourself.
That's a bit harsh Cohen. I expect Atkin's to be about 85% on target. I think he was right on with refined sugurs and refined carbos being the main problems in the American diet, and that we should eat more protein and more fat. That said, while going wild with animal fat and red meat may not be a bad thing for weight loss-- it probably is not a good thing for cancer and other health effects. Although I have heard Atkins' last book was toned down a bit from his earlier work, I would suggest for most people an Atkins' "light" more like the Zone. I don't think most people need to worry about eating too much fruits, vegies (even high gylcemic ones like carrots) and high fiber whole grains as long as they are also getting balanced protein and healthy fats (most from mono-unsaturated and fish oils--though the occasional burger or broiled short rib (yum) isn't going to kill you). I went on an Atkins' light diet--never in ketosis--and lost about 15 lbs and reduced my tryglicerides from 320-80. You don't need to be in ketosis to benefit from these dietary approaches but if you goal is major weight loss it would get you there much faster. And like another said, I don't think Atkins' recommended people stay in Ketosis that long. My story is similar with the trylicerides (major), HDL (minor) and ratio (minor) improvements on an Atkins' light diet. Though my doctor overall was very pleased, my LDL went very slightly up though. I am tweaking y diet trying more monosaturated fats, more fiber, and less pork/beef fats to try to further improve my profile (especially LDL).
VJ, Fair enough, but did you read the article I posted on page 2 about the Doctors research into the Atkins diet? It seems to me they are coming around to Atkins way of thinking. DD
DS, What was harsh? Criticism of folks who simply accept the 'experts' opinions on face-value? The medical community has been wrong on things since their earliest beginnings. They still are. I started reading on nutrition in the 70's, and the 'establichment' was wrong on almost every issue in contention and the 'hippie health nuts' were right on most. It takes forever for the medical community to change it's practices. They will ignore research for years. In the mean time, they continue to arrogantly espouse the party line and hurt people. The last thing I want is someone to confront me with 'well, that's what doctors think'. They are lucky if they took 1 nutrition course in med school based on the screwed-up ol' food pyramid. As for Atkins, I agree with your assessment that veggies and fruits are pretty much ok, aka Atkins 'Lite'. Ketosis is good for rapid weight loss, but I don't plan on staying there forever.
Eh, I'd say those are all quite isolated incidents. For every mistake made by the medical community, I am sure there are tens or hundreds on which they are right on target. And...Thanks, I'll wait(Though that also has something to do with my love for many foods high in carbs...Do you know how little Indian food I could consume without eating carbs?) No, but I will check it out.
starting Monday Dak, one question, i hate eggs, so i need some sugestions for breakfast and also any good snacks for the induction phase
Here's a pretty interesting thread on Atkins in this blog: http://www.37signals.com/svn/archives/000381.php?28 Seems people either love it or hate it.
I just had my bodyfat percentage tested and i have gone through dramatic changes. After finishing just two weeks of induction I have gone from a 14% bodyfat to a 9% bodyfat. I lost alot of strength, but less than I thought I would. My bench for reps went from 280 to 240 to give you an idea of strength losses. But I didn't care about the strength, I wanted to get under 10% bodyfat. In response to the people who preach moderatation, and well balanced diets and exercise - I want to explain to you that for some people it is simply not possible to get under 10% without low carb diets. I was the model of exercise and moderate food intake for the past six months. I have a very exacting work out schedule and I also do interval training for fat burning the likes of which should blast fat off of any physique. However I simply hit a wall where I could not get below 10% bodyfat without a major calorie reduction which was also dramatically reducing my muscle mass therefore not really improving my bodyfat percentage. I decided to try the induction phase of atkins partially because of DaDakota's threads and partially because I had some friends who told me that they did the atkins for just two weeks and got really ripped. Now granted I was already skinny and if I told people I was dieting they would tell me that I didn't need to but I wanted to get my old six pack back and I was very motivated. So I started about two weeks ago and I did have a hard time accepting the strength losses at first, but I took it as a sign of success because it meant that my glycogen was depleted. I also got some pretty bad headaches from the carb withdrawls. And I want to reiterate that I really had a pretty balanced diet before. I didn't eat simple sugars, I didn't drink sodas, and most of my carbs came from sources such as fruit, bran, rice and yams. It was only about friday that I really noticed that when I went to put on a pair of my pants and they were really lost that I realized how quickly it worked. I never expected these kinds of results even though they were touted. After a very hard workout yesterday I went in this morning to get my bfp tested with a water displacement tank at my friend's physical therapy clinic and when he told me my bfp I was amazed. My face has really thinned out and my abs have gotten alot more definition. I am tempted to stay in induction for about a week more to see if I can get to around 7%. After that I will go back to low carb with about 100 grams a day. The meals that have helped me through it - Baby spinach leaves covered in fresh parmesan and Italian Dressing with Stubb's marinated chicken breast on top. Meatballs Strip Steak marinated all kinds of ways Turkey Bacon Colby Jack In case it had any effect, I should also tell you that I supplemented with ZMA, Citracal, Coromega, Smartoils - an EFA supplement by Charles Poliquin, and Centrum.
I didn't get the sense VJ was that thoughtless or unanalytical in his assessment (that I thought you implied he was) even if I didn't agree with a lot of his statements on this dietary debate. I also agree with you the medical community has been wrong many times, but think you want to proceed cautiously (one of the themes of VJ’s posts) before completely bucking it. IMO the evidence (personal evidence as well as controlled clinical studies) that Atkins and Sears are mostly on the mark is fairly compelling now--at least regarding weight loss, blood lipid profile and pre-diabetic conditions (which might be a result of the weight loss anyway), enough for me to recommend to family and friends, but the complete health story (effect on cancer, maybe other things) may not be out so I wouldn't advocate a radical version of it (cutting out veggie carbs, whole grain carbs where you get fiber) for most people. Similarly, someone (obviously not you) who follows Atkins books like the gospel could be making the same mistakes of many of those who faught his diet tooth and nail w/o the evidence. But LeGrouper I think your health goals are great for you but unrealistic for 95% of the most of rest of us. For men I don’t know of much health benefit beyond getting BFI any lower than 12-14%--women even much higher than that. And if you to cut veggie carbs and whole grain carbs simply to get much below that level--well I suspect it might be better if you are trying to maximize something as an athlete or professional model or dancer or something like that but isn’t the healthiest for long term health especially cancer risk in your 50s+. Most people should make such dietary decisions/approaches based on how their diet relates to long term health risks--heart disease, cancer and diabetes mainly--and how they feel along with how they want themeselves to look or perform athletically--and there is a whole lot more to overall health than just BFI.
